Assistance

[Jurassic Referee]

[QUOTE=truerookie]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

2. On the jump ball to start the game A5 gently taps once, the ball drops straight down, B1 (non-jumper) reaches into the circle & gains control… violation or not? My partner (chopping) had violation.

If it hits the floor. I got nothing Play on.

Why would the ball have to hit the floor? Jump ball restrictions for non-jumpers end when the ball is touched by one of the jumpers. NFHS rule 6-3-5.

[truerookie]

[QUOTE=Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Why would the ball have to hit the floor? Jump ball restrictions for non-jumpers end when the ball is touched by one of the jumpers. NFHS rule 6-3-5.

Correct!! My attempt was to inform OP that once it was touch a non-jumper could retrieve it. It did not come across as I intended.

Appreciate all the feedback! I love this forum!

On the going out & coming back in to retrieve the ball play, my partner said something about last to touch, first to touch?? Help me out, what did he really mean?

On the jump ball play, I knew that it was wrong because the jumpers didn't obtain the ball & the jump began when it left my hand & ended when A5 gently tapped it.

As for the correctable error, had the table let us know it was 7 in the first place it would've been no problem. I really thought on correctable errors that we would indeed go back to where we were when we learned of the mistake. I just think it gives the wrong impression for officials to disagree publicly on the court. So I let some things ride that I shouldn't have


JRut: Yeah, I did let my partner run things all night long.
He was the senior guy, a transfer from ATL who claimed to have had worked D2 & JUCO. My first time meeting him & all, his mechanics were so crisp & his reporting was very, very smooth so I didn't second guess much of anything he said... well except that jump ball situation & correctable error but I kept that to myself. Didn't want the older guy thinking I was some young arrogant punk. Last time a partner & I disagreed, we went to the books at halftime & that only angered him more & made for an extra-long evening.
For the record, last season was my first being patched & working varsity level games, so I got teamed up with true vets who guided me through, but yeah you're right, I need to KNOW those rules. When we get our new books in the mail, I'll be on it!!

JR: From the knowledge I soaked up last weekend I will have to disagree & unfortunately rephrase that "we as a crew went 3 for 3. All wrong."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

1) On the going out & coming back in to retrieve the ball play, my partner said something about last to touch, first to touch?? Help me out, what did he really mean?

2)JR: From the knowledge I soaked up last weekend I will have to disagree & unfortunately rephrase that "we as a crew went 3 for 3. All wrong."

1) He meant that he doesn't really know or understand the rule.

2) Great comment. And correct also. We collectively take any credit coming, and we also collectively share any blame coming.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

JRut: Yeah, I did let my partner run things all night long.
He was the senior guy, a transfer from ATL who claimed to have had worked D2 & JUCO. My first time meeting him & all, his mechanics were so crisp & his reporting was very, very smooth so I didn't second guess much of anything he said... well except that jump ball situation & correctable error but I kept that to myself. Didn't want the older guy thinking I was some young arrogant punk. Last time a partner & I disagreed, we went to the books at halftime & that only angered him more & made for an extra-long evening.
For the record, last season was my first being patched & working varsity level games, so I got teamed up with true vets who guided me through, but yeah you're right, I need to KNOW those rules. When we get our new books in the mail, I'll be on it!!

It is common for officials to transfer from one area to another and say they worked a particular level. Do not get caught up into that. Also working D2 or JUCO does not make you a rules expert, it just means you worked a level you were assigned. For all you know the competition was not that high and he was asked to work that level based on his availability rather than his pure ability. That is a guess but it could be somewhat true. I have worked college games with people that cannot work a decent HS game. You will learn that as time goes on and you see guys come and go in and out of your area.

Now if you knew a mistake was being made by an official, then you should go to that official and insist you apply the rules properly or that "we" might have made a mistake. If the calling official insists on doing the wrong thing, then at least when the chips fall you can say you did what you did what you could to convince them. In the situation where the player was out of bounds and then back in bounds, it is possible you would have no idea why your partner called a violation. There are a couple of explanations that would make this a violation but based on your specific question it would not be. If you are working varsity, you have to learn to "step up" to a veteran when things are clearly wrong. You will not be given a pass if something is applied wrong and you have knowledge about it. It will affect your career.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Also working D2 or JUCO does not make you a rules expert, it just means you worked a level you were assigned. For all you know the competition was not that high and he was asked to work that level based on his availability rather than his pure ability. That is a guess but it could be somewhat true. I have worked college games with people that cannot work a decent HS game. You will learn that as time goes on and you see guys come and go in and out of your area.

Agree completely. In some areas, due to availability issues and the sheer number of schools/games, officials can work D2 or D3 and JUCO ball before they'll ever get a sniff of a good high school game. In other areas, you might have to prove yourself as a good high school official before you can get a sniff of JUCO/D2,3 ball. Officials should be judged on the job that they can do, not their resume.

And.....I've also seen some excellent officials who work rec leagues solely because that is all that they are basically interested in. That doesn't stop them from learning the rules and proper mechanics, and how to apply both, as well as how to manage a game. Iow, all rec league officials can't be labeled as Old School. They should be judged on the job that they do also.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

JRut: Yeah, I did let my partner run things all night long.
He was the senior guy, a transfer from ATL who claimed to have had worked D2 & JUCO.

What this could mean is that he's done one or two of each, and in those situations the assignor put him with vets who wouldn't let him go far wrong. But that doesn't mean he's got a clue. The next time someone says they've worked this level, ask when was the last one, and if they were the R. I'd bet a fair amount of donuts this guys NEVER been the R in a college game!

JRut: Gotcha! I will "step up" next time the opportunity presents itself instead of letting the crew crash & burn. And definately will get my head deep into the books, as I NEED to KNOW the rules in those situations like you said. I'm truly glad we are able to communicate now, because it's obvious that you have an abundance of wisdom to share with someone like myself.

So I publicly apologize for being over-sensitive with you earlier in the year.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

JRut: Gotcha! I will "step up" next time the opportunity presents itself instead of letting the crew crash & burn. And definately will get my head deep into the books, as I NEED to KNOW the rules in those situations like you said. I'm truly glad we are able to communicate now, because it's obvious that you have an abundance of wisdom to share with someone like myself.

So I publicly apologize for being over-sensitive with you earlier in the year.

Do not beat yourself up over this. You learned a lesson that many of us have had to learn in a much harder way. This is after all why you asked the questions you did. And you have accepted the premise of what we are trying to teach you.

BTW, I forgot about that little exchange long time ago. It really is not that big of a deal. It takes time for some to learn the basic personalities of the participants. That also applies to the older guys who have been around here when newer people come on the scene.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Do not beat yourself up over this. You learned a lesson that many of us have had to learn in a much harder way. This is after all why you asked the questions you did.

Agreed. The very reason you're working these games is to learn. Learning how to manage games is crucial, and learning to work with partners is key to managing a game. Learning when and how to try to correct a rules-error is tough, especially with a guy who comes off as a veteran.