Need assistance on this call

TonyD · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2005, 04:53pm

I need your help with this play. On 4th down, B31 intercepts A1's forward pass in B's end zone. B31 attempts to advance, but is downed in the end zone. During B31's run, B25 clips at B's 3 yard line. A's options, please.

andy1033 · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2005, 05:05pm

Decline foul B's ball at 20.

Accept foul B's ball 1 1 1/2 yd line.

tempestos · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2005, 06:20pm

Andy is correct. If the penalty is accepted, B will have the ball 1st and 10 from its own 1 1/2 (half the distance from the spot of the foul). If for some reason A declines the penalty, it will be a normal touchback with B having 1st and 10 from its own 20.

See Case Book play 10.4.4 Situation B.

TonyD · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 25, 2005, 11:19am

Thanks! Appreciate your help.

mcrowder · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 25, 2005, 01:52pm

This feels wrong, and I don't work FED, so bear with me.

Change this to B running it out to the 10, with a BIB on the 13. Where do you penalize from when the EOR is behind the penalty? The 10 in this case? Or the 13?

If the 10, why are you not penalizing from the EOR (or succeeding spot)? Is it because the foul was behind the succeeding spot (and not the End Of Run)?

Bob M. · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 25, 2005, 02:56pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mcrowder
This feels wrong, and I don't work FED, so bear with me.

Change this to B running it out to the 10, with a BIB on the 13. Where do you penalize from when the EOR is behind the penalty? The 10 in this case? Or the 13?

If the 10, why are you not penalizing from the EOR (or succeeding spot)? Is it because the foul was behind the succeeding spot (and not the End Of Run)?

REPLY: mcrowder...I might be mistaken, but I believe that this play is ruled identically in Federation and NCAA. Since the final result of the play is a TB (Federation words) and the foul occurred after a change of team possession in the end zone and the ball was declared dead there (NCAA words - NCAA 10-2-2-f-2), the basic spot of enforcement is the succeeding spot (B's 20). But since this play involved a foul by the offense behind the basic spot, it becomes a spot foul.

In your situation (B runs it out to the 10; BIB on the 13), penalize from the 10 because the end of the run (basic spot) was behind the spot of the foul. Once B brings the ball out of the endzone, the fact that he was ever there becomes immaterial.

mcrowder · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 25, 2005, 04:00pm

Interesting.

If this is correct, you learn something new every day. I know I've seen smarter people that I marking this off incorrectly then. I'll check with my rules guru on this one.

mcrowder · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 25, 2005, 04:48pm

I've consulted with the Lord of the Rules, and he agrees with you. This is likely to come up at a meeting soon, as I KNOW some 25-year guys have marked this off from the 20.

Suudy · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 25, 2005, 05:08pm

So adding to the mix. B1 intercepts A1's pass in B's EZ. During the return, B2 clips A2 in the EZ. B1 never leaves the EZ and is downed there.

Is this a safety? Or do you enforce it from the 20?

schwinn · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 25, 2005, 05:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Suudy
So adding to the mix. B1 intercepts A1's pass in B's EZ. During the return, B2 clips A2 in the EZ. B1 never leaves the EZ and is downed there.

Is this a safety? Or do you enforce it from the 20?

If A declines, it's a TB, If A accepts it's a safety because the foul occurred behind the basic spot.