Long Time Lurker, First Time Poster

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

Nevada
Okay having reread your rule cites, I see were you come up with the AP to reset play if you blew the whistle without possession / team control it does make some sense as to the determination that you came to.
I still do not agree with it - I think it a terrible outcome for the offense committed by the timer - but I find nothing that proves you wrong in the NFHS rules based blowing the ball dead without possession / team control being established.

That is the problem.

The whistle should not have been blown until possession/team control had been established,(this would not matter in NCAA as there is team control on the throw in), once team control is established, the whistle is blown, the timers mistake is rectified by resetting the clock or taking time off and the ball is put inbounds nearest the spot where the whistle blew. Because there is Team control the AP is out of the question.

Ok, we pretty much agree on this one. I've said numerous times that the current NFHS rules cover this poorly, and that if one were to follow the letter of the law in this case it could be grossly unfair. However, that consideration doesn't change what the actual rule is, which is what I have gone to great lengths to point out during this thread. Sadly, the applicable NFHS rule seems to be 6-4-3e, which says to go to the AP arrow.

You add a nice thought about the NCAA that since there is team control during the throw-in, this isn't a problem. That is one way that the NFHS could go to fix this. Perhaps they will make that change. It has been suggested for the past couple of years, since the NCAA did it.

However, you are incorrect under NCAA rules when you say that "the ball is put inbounds nearest the spot" following the stoppage. The NCAA released a clarification recently that said that the game resumes with a new throw-in by the same team from the original throw-in location.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Sadly, the applicable NFHS rule seems to be 6-4-3e, which says to go to the AP arrow.

The only thing that's sad is your screwy interpretation. You're Old School with a rule book.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The only thing that's sad is your screwy interpretation. You're Old School with a rule book.

JR:

1) Boy are you up early.

2) NevadaRef sites the correct rule. I agree that it is not the best way to handle the situation, that is why I stated in my earlier post, that since the only thing that is happening is a Timer's error is to what until the throw-in is over and then correct the clock.

MTD, Sr.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

JR:

NevadaRef sites the correct rule.

Well, Mark, I'd really, really like to be there when you and Nevada call that one. I can pretty much predict what's gonna happen.

State championship game. Team A has the ball OOB on it's endline with 5 seconds to go in the game, down 1. A1 rolls the ball up court. Just before it's touched, MTD Sr. blows his whistle. The R, Nevada, says we now have to go to the arrow. Whoopsie....team B has the arrow. Nevada/Mtd. Sr. now give team B the ball for a throw-in.

I can almost guarantee that you'll have to now unload the team A head coach via the 2-"T" route. Maybe an A assistant coach or two also, seeing that there's no way that they can win the game now anyway. I mean, why should the coach be mad? They had a throw-in, never finished the throw-in, never violated or did anything wrong, but you're giving the other team the ball. Well, I certainly hope that game management has provided a lot of security also because they're sureasheck gonna need it for the team A fanboys.

The good thing though is that you both can now claim that you were a part of history in your last game, because that game will never be forgotten.

I've seen some ridiculous interpretations made on this forum over the years, but I really think that this one might be the topper. I give it 5 Old Schools.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Well, Mark, I'd really, really like to be there when you and Nevada call that one. I can pretty much predict what's gonna happen.

State championship game. Team A has the ball OOB on it's endline with 5 seconds to go in the game, down 1. A1 rolls the ball up court. Just before it's touched, MTD Sr. blows his whistle. The R, Nevada, says we now have to go to the arrow. Whoopsie....team B has the arrow. Nevada/Mtd. Sr. now give team B the ball for a throw-in.

I can almost guarantee that you'll have to now unload the team A head coach via the 2-"T" route. Maybe an A assistant coach or two also, seeing that there's no way that they can win the game now anyway. I mean, why should the coach be mad? They had a throw-in, never finished the throw-in, never violated or did anything wrong, but you're giving the other team the ball. Well, I certainly hope that game management has provided a lot of security also because they're sureasheck gonna need it for the team A fanboys.

The good thing though is that you both can now claim that you were a part of history in your last game, because that game will never be forgotten.

I've seen some ridiculous interpretations made on this forum over the years, but I really think that this one might be the topper. I give it 5 Old Schools.

JR:

Go back and read my first post. I am not going to sound my whistle until A2 picks up the ball. And then I am going to correct the clock by taking one second off the clock and then give the ball to Team A nearest the spot that
A2 picked up the ball.

MTD, Sr.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

JR:

Go back and read my first post. I am not going to sound my whistle until A2 picks up the ball. And then I am going to correct the clock by taking one second off the clock and then give the ball to Team A nearest the spot that
A2 picked up the ball.

MTD, Sr.

Mark, go back and read Nevada's post. He's saying that he'll go with the arrow if the whistle is blown BEFORE the ball is touched. Iow, without anyone touching the ball in-bounds on that throw-in, he's going to give the defense the ball if they've got the arrow.That's what you agreed with.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Mark, go back and read Nevada's post. He's saying that he'll go with the arrow if the whistle is blown BEFORE the ball is touched. Iow, without anyone touching the ball in-bounds on that throw-in, he's going to give the defense the ball if they've got the arrow.That's what you agreed with.

JR:

I agreed that NevadeRef quoted the correct rules reference if one makes the ball dead before the throw-in ended. I am sorry if I didn't make myself more clear.

MTD, Sr.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

However, you are incorrect under NCAA rules when you say that "the ball is put inbounds nearest the spot" following the stoppage. The NCAA released a clarification recently that said that the game resumes with a new throw-in by the same team from the original throw-in location.

This is a direct quote from the Big sky conference in a press release
Posted 1/22/2007 5:13 PM ET
HELENA, Mont. (AP) — The Big Sky Conference has suspended three women's basketball officials for a wrong call during the Montana State-Idaho State game in Pocatello, Idaho on Saturday.
After Idaho State had begun bringing the ball up court following the made three-pointer, the officials stopped play because both the official game clock and shot clock had malfunctioned. The officiating crew nullified MSU's three-point basket and in essence, the officials ignored all play that occurred after the throw-in by MSU following the time out. The officials also failed to use information provided to them when determining how much time should be put on the clock, the league said.

"As a league, we are very supportive of our officials and we defer to them for judgment calls," said Big Sky Conference Commissioner Doug Fullerton. "But on an application of a rule, with three officials on the floor, we expect them to get it right. And, in light of the recent NCAA bulletin, which specifically addresses 'do-overs', these misapplications cannot be ignored or tolerated."

According to the rules, a shot clock malfunction problem has to be corrected within the shot clock period in which it occurred. However, in this case, a new shot clock period had begun when the throw-in by ISU took place and it was too late to cancel the basket.

Concerning the game clock, the rules state that a game clock malfunction must be corrected in the half or period in which it occurred. So, the officials could have corrected the time at any point within the period.

The officials needed to determine the correct time to be placed on both clocks based on those rules and resume play at the point of interruption, which is where the ball was when the officials stopped play. When an official has definite information relative to the malfunction problem and the time involved, they are permitted to correct the problem, but they are not permitted to ignore play that has occurred and start over, the league said.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

However, you are incorrect under NCAA rules when you say that "the ball is put inbounds nearest the spot" following the stoppage. The NCAA released a clarification recently that said that the game resumes with a new throw-in by the same team from the original throw-in location.


Nevada you are incorrect
based on this years 2/21/07 NCAA Rules Interpretations and Case Plays
Play AR 120 Ruling Says " ... After a Conclusion has been reached, the referee shall put the determined time on the game clock play shall be resumed at the point where the ball was located when play stopped for the timers mistake. ..."
https://www.eofficials.com/controlpa...?ContentID=11#