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Old Wed Mar 21, 2007, 08:07am
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Greetings all - had a play last weekend that I would like some opinions on:

After a TO, Team A (down by 6) is inbounding the ball on the endline after a made basket with 32.3 seconds in the 4th QTR. A1 throws the ball in and A2 allows it to bounce/roll to about midcourt without touching it in an attempt to keep the clock stopped.

As soon as I realize that A2 has not touched the ball I glance up and see the clock running. When I kill the play the ball is roughly at the division line. After instructing the timer to put 32.3 back up I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on where to inbound the ball.

For the record I inbounded at half court with 32.3 on the clock because that was the location of the live ball when I stopped play to fix the timing error and I could see Team B's coach salivating over the opportunity to put the ball on the endline and slap a press on, in effect allowing the timing error to deny Team A the precious 2 or 3 seconds it earned on the original inbound.
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Old Wed Mar 21, 2007, 08:11am
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I don't know if that is correct by the rules, but it sounds good to me.
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Old Wed Mar 21, 2007, 08:14am
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There's no concensus on this play. Some will tell you to do what you did. Others will tell you to take the ball back to the endline. I know of no case play or interp that addresses it.

One question. After the TO, Team B didn't press. Why do you think that he's suddenly going to press now? And more importantly, why would you care? That's not our concern.

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Old Wed Mar 21, 2007, 08:36am
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I would say it should go back to the endline. My initial thought to back this up is if the ball goes OOB without being touched on a throw-in, it goes back to the spot of the throw-in.
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Old Wed Mar 21, 2007, 08:42am
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But that would be on an offensive throwin violation. This isn't that. The live ball had reached the division line without being touched. The offense had legally advanced the ball that far, and should have had the full 32.3 seconds from that point.
Like BktBallRef says, it fits outside the scope of things the Fed tells us how to fix. This one takes a little thinking outside the box.
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Old Wed Mar 21, 2007, 09:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoInZebra
As soon as I realize that A2 has not touched the ball I glance up and see the clock running. When I kill the play the ball is roughly at the division line.
Inadvertant whistle with no team in control. Go to the arrow.
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Old Wed Mar 21, 2007, 09:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
Inadvertant whistle with no team in control. Go to the arrow.
I see the smilie, but please be sure to make it very clear that this is a joke. Do NOT go to the arrow in this situation!!!

This is an inadvertent whistle during a throw-in. The POI is a throw-in to the team who is making the throw-in.
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Old Wed Mar 21, 2007, 09:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
This is an inadvertent whistle during a throw-in. The POI is a throw-in to the team who is making the throw-in.
I disagree. If it was an IW, then you would have to go with the AP as there is no team control. HOWEVER, he killed the play because the clock started improperly, so I don't consider that an IW.
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Old Wed Mar 21, 2007, 09:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewNCref
I disagree. If it was an IW, then you would have to go with the AP as there is no team control. HOWEVER, he killed the play because the clock started improperly, so I don't consider that an IW.
While I agree that it's not an IW, per se, Scrapper is correct as to what to do when an IW occurs.

Take a look at 4-36-2 (POI rule) and 4-42-5.
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Old Wed Mar 21, 2007, 09:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
But that would be on an offensive throwin violation. This isn't that. The live ball had reached the division line without being touched. The offense had legally advanced the ball that far, and should have had the full 32.3 seconds from that point.
Like BktBallRef says, it fits outside the scope of things the Fed tells us how to fix. This one takes a little thinking outside the box.
If an inadvertent whistle occurs while Team A is passing the ball doesn't the ensuing throw-in go back to the spot nearest where the last pass came from?
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Old Wed Mar 21, 2007, 09:51am
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Interesting point that it is not an official's "accidental whistle". It's definitely on purpose to correct the timing mistake. However, without any other rule to go by, I would continue using the POI rule and give the throw-in to the team that had just made the throw-in.
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Old Wed Mar 21, 2007, 09:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewNCref[B
]I disagree. If it was an IW, then you would have to go with the AP as there is no team control. [/B] HOWEVER, he killed the play because the clock started improperly, so I don't consider that an IW.
You are correct that there is no team control during the throw in, but would be incorrect in this situation of going to the AP should an IW happen in the OP's situation. Team-A coming out of a time-out after a made basket..... If the IW happens here, the ball goes back to to Team A. See Caseplay 7.5.4. See the ruling for play D.
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Old Wed Mar 21, 2007, 09:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
If an inadvertent whistle occurs while Team A is passing the ball doesn't the ensuing throw-in go back to the spot nearest where the last pass came from?
There's no real clear guidance on that, BNR. The rule says that the POI is "a free throw or a throw-in when the stoppage occurred during this activity or if a team is entitled to such." (4-36-2b)

So here, we have a stoppage during a throw-in, but not when the thrower is holding the ball. So what does the rule tell us to do? It doesn't!! If there were team control, then you'd put it in play at the spot closest to the location of the ball (4-36-2a). But, as we all know, there's no team control during the throw-in.
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Old Wed Mar 21, 2007, 11:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTheRef
You are correct that there is no team control during the throw in, but would be incorrect in this situation of going to the AP should an IW happen in the OP's situation. Team-A coming out of a time-out after a made basket..... If the IW happens here, the ball goes back to to Team A. See Caseplay 7.5.4. See the ruling for play D.
I stand corrected! Thanks Joe and Mark. Good thing I've never had to make this call before!

Here's another thought I'd like to see what you guys think about, if there's no press on, why not just wait until he touches the ball, blow it dead, and reset the clock to the correct time, and then there's no question about where to give him the ball. Then again, that could be risky if the defense is anywhere near the ball or if Jon Diebler is playing defense.
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Old Wed Mar 21, 2007, 11:14am
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NCRef-

I thought about doing that - in the locker room after the game. I went with the first instinct which was to kill the play and fix the clock.
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