Double foul or?

[Rita C]

7th grade varsity, middle school.

Two players in the post area, jostling some for position. I'm in lead and offball. Suddenly there are slaps exchanged between the two players. (On the arms.) What would you call and would it change for high school?

Rita

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Sounds like a pretty simple double foul to me. If they start throwin punches though, toss em both. Same for high school, assuming both are using NFHS rules.

Ball is given to the team that had it when the fouls occurred. If there was no team control when the fouls occurred, go to the arrow.

[JRutledge]

I guess it would depend on what you call "slaps."

If you could, get the first foul. At least that is what I would do at the HS level. Then again I am trying my best to talk players out of physical play before I have to blow the whistle. It is really hard to give a definitive answer to this with so many things factoring in the judgment made.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

I would loudly call out, "You two, knock it off!"

[MJT]

I agree with Rut and Nevada, if possible have it be a talk to, especially if early in the game.

[TRef21]

I would yell Play Ball!

[JugglingReferee]

Definitely using the voice to prevent fouls. If they persist, I got a double foul all the way.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Definitely using the voice to prevent fouls. If they persist, I got a double foul all the way.

How can you prevent something that has already occurred?

All you're doing is saying "Hey, don't foul each other again".

You've got two pre-high school kids slapping each other. Clean it up. It ain't the Final Four.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

How can you prevent something that has already occurred?

All you're doing is saying "Hey, don't foul each other again".

You've got two pre-high school kids slapping each other. Clean it up. It ain't the Final Four.

Ok, fine: "again".

When was the last time you saw Gr 7/8 post players slapping arms? I can tell you this: I don't recall seeing Gr 7/8's in Canada doing it. V players: yes, JH: no.

However, they're old enough at that level to listen to what I have to say.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

When was the last time you saw Gr 7/8 post players slapping arms?

Again, what difference does that make? They did it. They're both out there slapping each other; not jostling for position or doing anything that's remotely basketball-related. And you, and others, plan on letting 'em get away with it. Imo, that's just wrong with Grade 7 kids.

If all of the other players on both teams start slapping the hell out of each other later, are you gonna give every one of the them the benefit of a warning too before calling any fouls? Gotta be consistent, y'know.

Imo you can warn 'em if they're starting to go a little too far in something that's basketball related, like jockeying for position. But when they get into slapping, taunting and other extraneous crap, especially at that age, it should get called. Calling the fouls is your warning.

Again, jmo Juggler.

[Adam]

I'd call this, regardless of when it happened. Double foul is perfect here.

[blindzebra]

Yep, double foul and then tell them to knock that crap off.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Rita C

7th grade varsity, middle school.

Two players in the post area, jostling some for position. I'm in lead and offball. Suddenly there are slaps exchanged between the two players. (On the arms.) What would you call and would it change for high school?

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Again, what difference does that make? They did it. They're both out there slapping each other; not jostling for position or doing anything that's remotely basketball-related. And you, and others, plan on letting 'em get away with it. Imo, that's just wrong with Grade 7 kids.

If all of the other players on both teams start slapping the hell out of each other later, are you gonna give every one of the them the benefit of a warning too before calling any fouls? Gotta be consistent, y'know.

Imo you can warn 'em if they're starting to go a little too far in something that's basketball related, like jockeying for position. But when they get into slapping, taunting and other extraneous crap, especially at that age, it should get called. Calling the fouls is your warning.

Again, jmo Juggler.

The OP said that players were jostling. In this jostling, there were slaps exchanged. I think you over-exagerated mentioning other players: the play would have been cleaned up by then. In the case in the OP, I think you can keep the game flow going with your voice; then use the whistle as a secondary option.

What is calling fouls a warning for? Being ejected?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

What is calling fouls a warning for? Being ejected?

In this play, you're warning the players that they can't just stand there and slap each other. The foul call tells them that they just can't get away with that sh!t.

Slapping another player has got absolutely nothing to do with physical contact that can be expected to come up in the normal course of a basketball game.

[blindzebra]

Our main concerns are:

Fairly applying the rules and safety.

Game flow should always take a back seat to that.

In this situation you have stuff going well beyond basketball, and it needs to be addressed in no uncertain terms...that means calling the fouls. Make it loud in clear, and then talk to them.

This isn't about being able to handle it without a whistle, it's about protecting the game from two stupid players.