The crew did nothing...

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have learned how to carry myself in a way that this kind of behavior does not happen to me. Not to say it would never happen in the future, but I guess I do not see a reason to throw someone out because they lost control for a moment. I would rather give two Ts, than one if I am going to eject someone for their behavior.

Peace

I concur. If that player has a problem with an official, he will let it out again.....

[Old School]

When I read the OP, it states the official just chuckled about it. He did not think it was that bad, so I don't understand why you are debating it. Whether is was a flagrant T or not is irrelevant b/c both officials passed on the call. If you want to debate flagrant or not. That is a judgment call, not an absolute like JR says. I can toss a coach or player for saying far less than that so whether a flagrant is called or not is judgment.

You and JR need to learn to trust your partners and fellow comrades. What I mean is they are possibly at the end of there night and thinking about the good time they are going to have afterwards. Some player says something completely dumb, and I'm like, if I call this technical, that's going to delay the game that much more, and it's not going to change the outcome. This game is over and I'm not slowing it down to shoot no technicals, got to explain to the coach why, etc., etc. Even though it was well deserved, ain't got time tonight. Got a beautiful honey waiting on me afterwards. I'm going home.

I can't tell you how many times a player or coach has spouted off to me at or near the end of the game, and I just ignored it because it's not going to change the outcome. The only thing it's going to do is delay my leaving that much more. Cause some other undue stuff that I now have to deal with. If my evaluator is there and says why I didn't call that technical. I would say what technical? Didn't you hear that kid on the bench? I'd be like, what kid? What did he say? Damn, if I would have heard that, I would have T him. Have a good night.....

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by Old School

When I read the OP, it states the official just chuckled about it. He did not think it was that bad, so I don't understand why you are debating it. Whether is was a flagrant T or not is irrelevant b/c both officials passed on the call. If you want to debate flagrant or not. That is a judgment call, not an absolute like JR says. I can toss a coach or player for saying far less than that so whether a flagrant is called or not is judgment.

You and JR need to learn to trust your partners and fellow comrades. What I mean is they are possibly at the end of there night and thinking about the good time they are going to have afterwards. Some player says something completely dumb, and I'm like, if I call this technical, that's going to delay the game that much more, and it's not going to change the outcome. This game is over and I'm not slowing it down to shoot no technicals, got to explain to the coach why, etc., etc. Even though it was well deserved, ain't got time tonight. Got a beautiful honey waiting on me afterwards. I'm going home.

I can't tell you how many times a player or coach has spouted off to me at or near the end of the game, and I just ignored it because it's not going to change the outcome. The only thing it's going to do is delay my leaving that much more. Cause some other undue stuff that I now have to deal with. If my evaluator is there and says why I didn't call that technical. I would say what technical? Didn't you hear that kid on the bench? I'd be like, what kid? What did he say? Damn, if I would have heard that, I would have T him. Have a good night.....

I'm speechless.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

I'm speechless.

Don't be, apparently that's how it's done in the rec leagues and college intramural programs where OS works.

[SWMOzebra]

Originally Posted by Old School

The only thing it's going to do is delay my leaving that much more. Cause some other undue stuff that I now have to deal with.

So, the technical foul becomes a "game interrupter" that gets a no-call? What about travels and illegal dribbles? By themselves, they're unlikely to change the outcome of a game as well....so do those get no-calls as well?

Don't we, as officials, have a responsibility to call the tightest game that our abilities permit in an unbiased fashion? I readily accept that a large part of our calls are based on judgment and I will certainly admit that mine judgment is not as solid as others with more experience than I, but to say the outcome of a game wouldn't change and use that thinking to justify a no-call is simply a dis-service to the game of basketball.

Maybe I'm reading more into the post than what was meant to be, but I dunno...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Every time a player says "you're (adjective)" where the adjective is negative, I eject. EVERY time. Without question, without fail. Period. Last year I had someone in a dugout yell out, "You're brutal," and I tossed him without a second thought.

Maybe it's my baseball background, but I don't tolerate that in any sport I work. Yell at the stripes, don't yell at me.

They can ALWAYS find an excellent reason to talk themselves into NOT ejecting someone, Rich. And they wonder why some coaches and players are out of control. It's because they're afraid to control them.

Sad.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

They can ALWAYS find an excellent reason to talk themselves into NOT ejecting someone, Rich. And they wonder why some coaches and players are out of control. It's because they're afraid to control them.

Sad.

They are not out of control in my games.

Peace

[Old School]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

So, the technical foul becomes a "game interrupter" that gets a no-call? What about travels and illegal dribbles? By themselves, they're unlikely to change the outcome of a game as well....so do those get no-calls as well?

Don't we, as officials, have a responsibility to call the tightest game that our abilities permit in an unbiased fashion? I readily accept that a large part of our calls are based on judgment and I will certainly admit that mine judgment is not as solid as others with more experience than I, but to say the outcome of a game wouldn't change and use that thinking to justify a no-call is simply a dis-service to the game of basketball.

Maybe I'm reading more into the post than what was meant to be, but I dunno...

No, I just think that sometimes you should trust the people that are responsible to making the call. There maybe other factors that cause the no-call. Like, I just didn't hear it. Friday I had a girls game that was a 30 point blow-out. Late in the game both teams empty there benches and my judgment for fouls in the game changed. I let some contact fouls go because he was time to go home. Neither teams coaches, players or fans said a word. It was obvious unless blood was drawn (figure of speech) there wasn't going to be anymore calls. My point is, as long as everyone's okay with it, you get it over with and you go home. If you are the type that feels like you are not earning your money or doing a disservice to the profession unless you call everything you see, then call it. Just don't be surprise if not everyones see it that way.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

They are not out of control in my games.

Peace

They are not out of control in my games either!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

They are not out of control in my games.

Well, if you let players swear AT you, then imo they sureashell ARE out of control. There's a big difference between swearing and a player calling you names. And there's also a big difference between high school and D1 basketball.

No wonder the OJ Mayo's of the world feel that they can get away with anything. With some officials, they can.

Again, jmo. If you and the others feel that it's OK for high school players to swear at you and them, be my guest. Calling a regular ol' "T" is meaningless. They'll never learn a thing from that, except that they can get away with it.

[REFVA]

I'm going to throw a curve to this thread. what if it were your child cursing to an adult or a referee or at you. Would you ignore it and let it go?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

No, I just think that sometimes you should trust the people that are responsible to making the call. There maybe other factors that cause the no-call. Like, I just didn't hear it. Friday I had a girls game that was a 30 point blow-out. Late in the game both teams empty there benches and my judgment for fouls in the game changed. I let some contact fouls go because he was time to go home. Neither teams coaches, players or fans said a word. It was obvious unless blood was drawn (figure of speech) there wasn't going to be anymore calls. My point is, as long as everyone's okay with it, you get it over with and you go home. If you are the type that feels like you are not earning your money or doing a disservice to the profession unless you call everything you see, then call it. Just don't be surprise if not everyones see it that way.

Gee, and earlier you implied you weren't going to make the call (even a technical foul) because you wanted to go home. Apparently, the kids on the bench don't deserve the same kind of officiating as the starters and regular players?
As long as your local YMCA doesn't mind....

[Texas Aggie]

He was (1) personal and (2) profane.

Right. If its one OR the other you might just call the T, but with both, its a no brainer ejection.

[PIAA REF]

IMO it doesn't matter who it is or when it is. It will be my judgement and being it my judgement I will be consistent. I will T someone up for swearing at me, but I will not eject them. I will give them the opportunity to settle themselves down. Just because I may be more lenient than some and maybe even stricter than others imo is nether right nor wrong this again is the officials judgement. I have given out 6 T's this year. All have been on players and all have been for taunting another player except one, One was on a player who reacted to my partners call and pulled his shirt out. People also IMO have to understand that T's (whether right or wrong) are given out more in some places and less in some places. EX: In my area we don't give many out, however a new official who moved in from NC was used to giving plenty out. He said that is how they did it there. My main purpose of this example is the bottom line is no matter what game you are on or where it is be consistent. Don't let it go one night and not the next.
IMO

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Well, if you let players swear AT you, then imo they sureashell ARE out of control. There's a big difference between swearing and a player calling you names. And there's also a big difference between high school and D1 basketball.

Stop the hyperbole. I did not say I let anyone do anything. I would gladly punish such actions, I just do not feel on its surface this is an "automatic" ejection. If you do feel it is, knock yourself out. I stop players from complain at all about any call. So usually it does not get to that level.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

No wonder the OJ Mayo's of the world feel that they can get away with anything. With some officials, they can.

The OJ Mayo situation has absolutely nothing to do with this. Once again, more hyperbole.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Again, jmo. If you and the others feel that it's OK for high school players to swear at you and them, be my guest. Calling a regular ol' "T" is meaningless. They'll never learn a thing from that, except that they can get away with it.

I realize this is an emotional issue for you and you feel that you have to right all the wrongs across the country, whether it is a rules issue or why we should not listen to Referee Magazine. I think your passion is admirable on the surface, but please do not tell me why I should do something because you think it is wrong. I know we do not agree on other issues that I feel are very moral and you do not see me beating you over the head with my opinion. OJ Mayo did this in West Virginia, he did not do this in places that would have gotten him a punch back (I am kind of kidding). So OJ is used to officials giving a damn about his status. I live in an area where OJ would just be another so-called superstar and officials would not care what that kid thought. Ask fellow McDonald's American Derrick Rose and see if officials bended over backwards to make him feel special where I live?

Please do not tell me what I should do or not do in my games. I have enough experience and been through enough fires in my career in 3 sports that I can form an opinion that works for me. If you feel you need to throw someone out and fill out paper work because they used a curse word that is your right to feel that way. I have had great success with problem players and they seemed to get the message to what I do not want them to do. If you do not have that ability or want to do that, go right ahead.

Peace