The crew did nothing...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

This rule doesn't really back up the assertion that the original scenario is NOT flagrant. The bolded section is intended to clarify that just because profanity is not directed towards anyone in particular, it does not mean it shouldn't be called. This has nothing to do with the flagrant nature of a technical foul.

I will ask you the same question I asked the other poster. What would you consider to be the definition of flagrant? How far would this particular player have to go to get you to call a flagrant?

The rules do not say it has to be flagrant either. This is all my point is. This is a judgment call. All I will say if I ejected everyone that used profanity there are places there would be no game. But then again, I do not just get upset when I hear profanity. I address other little comments that players have no business saying to me. Then again I do not allow players to call me by my first name. So I tend to have a different set of values than most here in the first place.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Here is the problem I have with your argument, you are caught up into swearing. There are other comments that I find worse than swearing. Swearing are just some specific words. I look for a little more than just some words.

Peace

How about the personal nature or the volume?

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

The bottom line is that this is the officials judgement. To me this falls into the unsportmanlike rule and I would issue a T. In my state a Flagrant T would mean he is done for the night and the next game as well. I just don't see him being frustrated and verbalizing it should result in that stiff of penalty.
I will use this example. (names are made up)
Bob is really mad at his insurance agent because he thought he was entitled to more money. Bob yells at him and even goes as far as saying he is going to hurt him. Only 2 things could happen: Agent does nothing or at worst reports Bob to police and a minor infraction is assessed to Bob
OR: Same case Bob is mad and punches agent or even kills him. In what case should a stiffer penalty be issued?
Same case in BBALL frustration was shown with words (t is given) Other actions (hits someone) Goes after an official: Stiffer penalty is given.
This is just my opionion. What we need to understand that this is a judgement issue.

Bob should have gotten Aflac ....

In all seriousness though, I see the distinction you're trying to make, and definitely think you have a good point, there are worse situations that we wouldn't have any greater punishment for. I honestly don't know how to respond to this. Definitely some good food for thought.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

How about the personal nature or the volume?

What about it? Are you ejected all comments without profanity and a high volume?

I also tend to set a tone that I am not the one. I cannot speak for what the rest of you do.

Peace

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

This rule doesn't really back up the assertion that the original scenario is NOT flagrant. The bolded section is intended to clarify that just because profanity is not directed towards anyone in particular, it does not mean it shouldn't be called. This has nothing to do with the flagrant nature of a technical foul.

I will ask you the same question I asked the other poster. What would you consider to be the definition of flagrant? How far would this particular player have to go to get you to call a flagrant?

Okay, let me say this. On our board, tossing a player for that would be very questionable and the coach would have gone to others to get it overturned. You can never reproduce the emotion or the intensity of how it was said. One official may have more tolerance for such words and handle it a whole different way. Myself personally, whether its the f-bomb or any curse word, you get an automatic "t", whether its directed to me or not. Now, IF it is directed to me and you get in my face or bump me during this exchange, then you get tossed. I hope that clears up the air.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What about it? Are you ejected all comments without profanity and a high volume?

I also tend to set a tone that I am not the one. I cannot speak for what the rest of you do.

Peace

Every time a player says "you're (adjective)" where the adjective is negative, I eject. EVERY time. Without question, without fail. Period. Last year I had someone in a dugout yell out, "You're brutal," and I tossed him without a second thought.

Maybe it's my baseball background, but I don't tolerate that in any sport I work. Yell at the stripes, don't yell at me.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

You keep on saying we are letting kids swear at us, were not we all agreed to T them up, that is their penalty Now if they do it again then yes they would be gone. So we are not letting them do that, we just have a different philosophy on the penalty. For someone who has come across to me (on here) as a nice but opinionated guy, you my friend have been out of line on this post. You are out right trying to belittle your fellow officials. You are wrong. You in Old School are one in the same to me now.

That part you got right. But the part about me and JR are one in the same is way off. I am merely on the defense when interjecting on this forum. People like JR are constantly on the attack. I have stated this many times before that he likes to throw officials under the bus. Me, I just refuse to sit back and take it. I have endured enough of that in my life. So I strike back but I am always on the defense.

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What about it? Are you ejected all comments without profanity and a high volume?

I also tend to set a tone that I am not the one. I cannot speak for what the rest of you do.

Peace

JRut,

I don't think anyone's ejecting solely based on volume, but I think it's just one more thing to factor into the whole senario.

Also, what do you mean by, "I also tend to set a tone that I am not the one"? Just wondering, because I didn't quite understand it from your post.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Every time a player says "you're (adjective)" where the adjective is negative, I eject. EVERY time. Without question, without fail. Period. Last year I had someone in a dugout yell out, "You're brutal," and I tossed him without a second thought.

Maybe it's my baseball background, but I don't tolerate that in any sport I work. Yell at the stripes, don't yell at me.

That is fine with me. I am not going to eject for that alone.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

I think you are using a case that doesn't fit the situation.

How does it not fit? Is it okay for a player to do it but not a coach? Is it okay during the game but not after? Seriously, how is this different?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by NewNCref

Bob should have gotten Aflac ....

In all seriousness though, I see the distinction you're trying to make, and definitely think you have a good point, there are worse situations that we wouldn't have any greater punishment for. I honestly don't know how to respond to this. Definitely some good food for thought.

how about the fact that if a player assaults an official, he's going to get more than one game suspension. Quite possibly, he'll get criminal charges. The OP calls for a flagrant T and the one game suspension that goes with it, IMO. If he goes further, then the state can determine whether there's more called for or not.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Old School

That part you got right. But the part about me and JR are one in the same is way off. I am merely on the defense when interjecting on this forum. People like JR are constantly on the attack. I have stated this many times before that he likes to throw officials under the bus. Me, I just refuse to sit back and take it. I have endured enough of that in my life. So I strike back but I am always on the defense.

You have directly insulted, without provocation, other officials on this board besides JR and me. Don't sit back and pretend to be on the high road and play victim.

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

But, officials dont swear at officials, so that statement and your responce is irrelevant. Please check you grammer at the end of your post. Evidently, you are upset or cant type plain english. JMO....LOL

Irony and sarcasm can be fun.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by NewNCref

Also, what do you mean by, "I also tend to set a tone that I am not the one"? Just wondering, because I didn't quite understand it from your post.

I have learned how to carry myself in a way that this kind of behavior does not happen to me. Not to say it would never happen in the future, but I guess I do not see a reason to throw someone out because they lost control for a moment. I would rather give two Ts, than one if I am going to eject someone for their behavior.

Peace

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by FMadera

Irony and sarcasm can be fun.

Yes, did that on purpus!!! LOL