Fifth foul procedure

[OklahomaRef]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Seriously, depends on where they are standing. The kid standing by the coach in the team bench area when the horn sounds WHACK!!. The kid and coach standing at X in front of table horns sounds "let's go 15 coach (former official) I did not get my 20 sec horn don't worry about WHACK!! no difference. Like it was stated before clean up the behavior.

I don't fell like I really need to clean up my behavior. I am very respectful to the kids and the officials. When I got the first technical I was trying to kill some momentum for them, and build some for us. I wasn't irate when I got it, I just basically asked for it. I had plenty of coaches do the same when I was officiating. I never took it as they were out of control or anything like that. The thing is is that after I got the T the opposing team missed both free throws, we forced a turnover and went to the line. It was a huge momentum swing. I remember coaches that made fools of themselves and I'm not going to be like that. However, if I think getting a technical in a certain situation will help us win, I am going to do so.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by OklahomaRef

However, if I think getting a technical in a certain situation will help us win, I am going to do so.

Sigh......

Unfortunately, that statement tells me all that I need to know right there. Sad, but certainly not uncommon.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Sigh......

Unfortunately, that statement tells me all that I need to know right there. Sad, but certainly not uncommon.

I don't understand why it's "sad." This is a common tactic, from what I've observed. A lot of times a technical foul will get your players all riled up and ready to go back in there and scrap harder. I imagine it's tough as an official to try and judge whether that's the coach's intent or not and how that factors into your decision to call the T.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I don't understand why it's "sad." This is a common tactic, from what I've observed.

It's sad because:

1) The coach is placing winning above sportsmanship. He or she is intentionally acting in an unsportsmanlike manner in order to gain a perceived competitive advantage. At the high school level, and particularly at the freshman level, that's sad.

2) The coach is not coaching. For whatever reason, the coach decides that he is unable to motivate/teach/instruct his team adequately. He has stopped being a coach and decides to become "the show", in the hopes that that will motivate his team.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

It's sad because:

1) The coach is placing winning above sportsmanship. He or she is intentionally acting in an unsportsmanlike manner in order to gain a perceived competitive advantage. At the high school level, and particularly at the freshman level, that's sad.

2) The coach is not coaching. For whatever reason, the coach decides that he is unable to motivate/teach/instruct his team adequately. He has stopped being a coach and decides to become "the show", in the hopes that that will motivate his team.

Well put. I hadn't thought of it that way.

I have to say, I'm learning a lot, and it's actually a bit discouraging. Lots of little nuances like this that don't come naturally yet. Thanks for your post, though.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

It's sad because:

1) The coach is placing winning above sportsmanship. He or she is intentionally acting in an unsportsmanlike manner in order to gain a perceived competitive advantage. At the high school level, and particularly at the freshman level, that's sad.

2) The coach is not coaching. For whatever reason, the coach decides that he is unable to motivate/teach/instruct his team adequately. He has stopped being a coach and decides to become "the show", in the hopes that that will motivate his team.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Sigh......

Unfortunately, that statement tells me all that I need to know right there. Sad, but certainly not uncommon.

Don't agree here. We always say a Technical is just another foul call. We punish the behavior and move on. No big deal. Nothing to make me think lesser of the coach. I think it's not an uncommon practice among coaches. We're not supposed to take it personally.

We don't like coaches judging us but we feel it's alright to judge them.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Don't agree here. We always say a Technical is just another foul call. We punish the behavior and move on. No big deal. Nothing to make me think lesser of the coach. I think it's not an uncommon practice among coaches. We're not supposed to take it personally.

We don't like coaches judging us but we feel it's alright to judge them.

Yes, technical fouls are just another call. That doesn't mean that we approve of unsporting acts. Do I think lesser of a coach that will deliberately commit an unsporting act to try and get an advantage? Yup, I sureashell do. That doesn't affect the way that I call a game though. And I don't carry it over to the next game either. It certainly does mean though that I am not going to ignore those unsporting acts. Ever.

Every time that we issue an unsporting technical foul to a coach, we are judging that coach's behavior. That's part of our job. It is not part of a coach's job to judge the referees.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Every time that we issue an unsporting technical foul to a coach, we are judging that coach's behavior. That's part of our job. It is not part of a coach's job to judge the referees.

Yes we are judge, jury, and sometimes executioner on the court. But there are plenty of coaches who have used the practice of getting a technical for strategic or tactical reasons. My judgement of the act ends when I form the the T sign with my hands. Why he got the T is not important, whether it was an intentional ploy or an impulsive, childish reaction. Makes no nevermind to me after the fact.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

there are plenty of coaches who have used the practice of getting a technical for strategic or tactical reasons.

And to me, IMHO, that is deliberately being unsporting in order to gain a perceived advantage. To me, IMHO, that coach has just placed more importance on winning than on sportsmanship. At the freshman HS level, IMHO, I think that's sad.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

And to me, IMHO, that is deliberately being unsporting in order to gain a perceived advantage. To me, IMHO, that coach has just placed more importance on winning than on sportsmanship. At the freshman HS level, IMHO, I think that's sad.

What advantage? No different than committing a strategic or intentional foul. Whistle is blown, penalty is enforced.

You really think a coach cares what we think about their chosen coaching tactics?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Yes we are judge, jury, and sometimes executioner on the court. But there are plenty of coaches who have used the practice of getting a technical for strategic or tactical reasons. My judgement of the act ends when I form the the T sign with my hands. Why he got the T is not important, whether it was an intentional ploy or an impulsive, childish reaction. Makes no nevermind to me after the fact.

It also makes no nevermind to me either in the way that I will call the game. I don't have to respect a coach to treat them equally and fairly. However, I don't respect coaches that use the so-called tactic of getting strategic "T"s. It's the complete antithesis of sportsmanship imo. They don't give a damn that they might be doing that in a Frosh game and their players will follow their lead, or that to get that "strategic technical" that they want they're crapping all over an official who might still be trying to learn his avocation.

That was my point.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by OklahomaRef

I don't fell like I really need to clean up my behavior. I am very respectful to the kids and the officials. When I got the first technical I was trying to kill some momentum for them, and build some for us. I wasn't irate when I got it, I just basically asked for it. I had plenty of coaches do the same when I was officiating. I never took it as they were out of control or anything like that. The thing is is that after I got the T the opposing team missed both free throws, we forced a turnover and went to the line. It was a huge momentum swing. I remember coaches that made fools of themselves and I'm not going to be like that. However, if I think getting a technical in a certain situation will help us win, I am going to do so.

Oklahoma Ref, go to know.