The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2007, 09:13am
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
I would only have to hold my stop sign for 1.35 seconds.

It is pretty powerful!
You've timed your whistle?
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2007, 09:14am
Huck Finn
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
It certainly is never a given that a stop sign or any warning must precede a technical foul.
Thank you for posting this.
__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2007, 09:16am
Huck Finn
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
You've timed your whistle?
Huh?

I only have to hold my stop sign for 1.15 seconds, not my whistle. Notice my stop sign time decreased since last night. I worked on it after I posted and decreased how long I have to hold it. Stayed up til 2am working on that darn thing.

Oh, one more thing




__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2007, 09:27am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,910
In this scenario, I'm not sure they would get the luxury of a stop sign. You have one coach stomping and others chiming in. A nice T on the bench would be in order here to me. I'll post about my T last night here in a bit.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2007, 09:55am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 696
The Stop sign is avisual communication tool.

It should be held as long as needed to get the point across to the Coach.

Look for a positve reaction from the Caoch that the message is recieved and acknowledged.
__________________
"Sports do not build character. They reveal it" - Heywood H. Broun
"Officiating does not build character. It reveal's it" - Ref Daddy
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2007, 10:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
In other situations, an immediate "T" might be necessary with no warning, stop sign, etc involved. That depends on the circumstances and the individual tolerance level of the official(sometimes- other times are no-brainers). It certainly is never a given that a stop sign or any warning must precede a technical foul.
Agreed. And for those who might be concerned about depriving the other team of a chance to score when you call a "T": remember, that team now gets two free throws AND the ball back. This concern seems to misprioritize game play over game management, at least in some cases.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2007, 10:51am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 47
We were actually discussing this situation at a game last night. One of our senior officials who also works the college game reminded us that no matter how bad he is behaving, if you are going to T a coach, always wait until his team has the ball. It just adds a little more insult to the situation. I had never really thought about it, but that is a good idea.
__________________
As an official, I always appreciate the crowds stupidity. It reminds me why I am on the court, and they are sitting in the bleachers.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2007, 10:55am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron
Agreed. And for those who might be concerned about depriving the other team of a chance to score when you call a "T": remember, that team now gets two free throws AND the ball back. This concern seems to misprioritize game play over game management, at least in some cases.
This doesn't apply here since it sounds like one team was running an offense, but remember if you have a fast break situation with an unsporting T, you hold you whistle until after the score. I booted this one earlier in my career. I just thought I'd throw that one out there.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2007, 10:59am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jway44
We were actually discussing this situation at a game last night. One of our senior officials who also works the college game reminded us that no matter how bad he is behaving, if you are going to T a coach, always wait until his team has the ball. It just adds a little more insult to the situation. I had never really thought about it, but that is a good idea.
Can't figure out what additional insult this brings, under ncaa he gets the ball back anyway after the free throws. Also injects a bit of "this is personal" into a process that should be "all business". FWIW.

If you need to T a coach just go ahead and T him.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2007, 11:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junker
In this scenario, I'm not sure they would get the luxury of a stop sign. You have one coach stomping and others chiming in. A nice T on the bench would be in order here to me. I'll post about my T last night here in a bit.

The NCHSSA director made it very clear this year, that officials are not to tolorate assistant coaches in any way, shape, or form. He let it be known that "assistants" are to sit on there "***" and be quiet. He stated that the assistants are bench personnel treated exactly like the players that are sitting on the bench. The head coach is 100% responsible for the actions of bench personnel. If the bench (players or coaches) can not behave, then the head coach shall pay for it with a loss of his coaching box.

So in the situation mentioned in this thread, if an assistant coach was making any "noise" toward an official, he should be asessed the T as soon as possible. The stop sign is always a good warning for a head coach. An assistant does not deserve that same privilage.
__________________
As an official, I always appreciate the crowds stupidity. It reminds me why I am on the court, and they are sitting in the bleachers.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2007, 11:02am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
Can't figure out what additional insult this brings, under ncaa he gets the ball back anyway after the free throws. Also injects a bit of "this is personal" into a process that should be "all business". FWIW.

If you need to T a coach just go ahead and T him.

This was High School situation, so 2 shots and the ball to the other team. Threrefore you have taken the ball from the offending team, given the other team 2 shots and the ball. There is nothing "personal" about it. Just hold you whistle until his team has possesion. If he is angry enough to deserve a T, then the couple of extra seconds that you hold your whistle will not make any difference, and it may show that you gave him a little longer to calm himself down even though you have already made up your mind to give him the T.
__________________
As an official, I always appreciate the crowds stupidity. It reminds me why I am on the court, and they are sitting in the bleachers.

Last edited by Jway44; Wed Jan 10, 2007 at 11:10am.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2007, 11:09am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jway44
This was High School situation, so 2 shots and the ball to the other team. Threrefore you have taken the ball from the offending team, given the other team 2 shots and the ball.
You mentioned he's a college official so I assumed he does this for his ncaa games. Or maybe you think his status as a college official gives him more credibility?

In any event it's very bad advice IMO. You start doing this stuff and next thing you'll be making calls/no-calls based on how much you like the coach.

When it's time to T the coach just go ahead and T him. Throw all that other clever BS out the window.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2007, 11:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
You mentioned he's a college official so I assumed he does this for his ncaa games. Or maybe you think his status as a college official gives him more credibility?

In any event it's very bad advice IMO. You start doing this stuff and next thing you'll be making calls/no-calls based on how much you like the coach.

When it's time to T the coach just go ahead and T him. Throw all that other clever BS out the window.

I only mentioned that he is a college official because he is very respected in our association. He has worked numerous NCAA tournament games, and a couple of Final Fours. The advice was based on High School situation. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking a coach, it is just a matter of holding the whistle for a few extra seconds.

I am the last person to go passing out technical fouls, so if I administer one, it is well warranted. So if a coach is behaving that badly, holiding the whistle for another second or two until his team has possesion is just causing him to "loose" as much as he can for his actions. Remember we are talking about a situation where he is going to get T'd up. Not a situation where you are looking for a problem.

We are on the floor for the players, not the coaches. I rarely pay them any attention at all unless there is a dead ball situation and they are asking a question or requesting a time out. Therefore if he is behaving bad enough for me to give him a T, another second or two will not hurt a bit.
__________________
As an official, I always appreciate the crowds stupidity. It reminds me why I am on the court, and they are sitting in the bleachers.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2007, 11:25am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jway44
I only mentioned that he is a college official because he is very respected in our association. He has worked numerous NCAA tournament games, and a couple of Final Fours. The advice was based on High School situation. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking a coach, it is just a matter of holding the whistle for a few extra seconds.

I am the last person to go passing out technical fouls, so if I administer one, it is well warranted. So if a coach is behaving that badly, holiding the whistle for another second or two until his team has possesion is just causing him to "loose" as much as he can for his actions. Remember we are talking about a situation where he is going to get T'd up. Not a situation where you are looking for a problem.

We are on the floor for the players, not the coaches. I rarely pay them any attention at all unless there is a dead ball situation and they are asking a question or requesting a time out. Therefore if he is behaving bad enough for me to give him a T, another second or two will not hurt a bit.
OK, so what you're really saying is when a coach gets on your azz IF the other team has the ball and IF you think they are about to turn it over then hold the T. Otherwise T right away. Right?

Interesting policy. What happens if the coach is reaming you a new one while you're waiting for the other team to turn it over but they don't? Or what if the OTHER coach calls a time out?? Then what? You wait for the TO to end and start all over? How long do you wait until you finally give up and T him up when he doesn't have the ball?

To me life is complicated enough already. Coach earns his T, he gets his T right then & there.

Frankly, I don't care if your friend worked EVERY D1 final for the last 20 years. What you heard him say is bad advice. That's all.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2007, 11:34am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
When it's time to T the coach just go ahead and T him. Throw all that other clever BS out the window.
Agreed. Just penalize the act and forget about the analysis.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is taking a sign to you? DaveASA/FED Softball 5 Fri Apr 21, 2006 09:44pm
sign off of rubber FED smoump Baseball 11 Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:10pm
Running a stop sign Adam Basketball 10 Wed Dec 08, 2004 04:57pm
Stop Sign! Back In The Saddle Basketball 34 Tue Mar 04, 2003 02:46pm
Where's your sign? BktBallRef Basketball 8 Wed Apr 25, 2001 11:37pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:22am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1