How Long do you hold your stop sign?

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Jway44

Everything we do in basketball is based on management of the game.

OK, if this isn't what you mean I will give you a second chance to take it back. I don't know can say everything and then not mean everything.

Now I'm starting to see why I don't have to use my .963 second - I worked on it at lunch - stop sign as often as others.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Rocky,

Around here, the stop sign is used to communicate with your partners as well as the caoch. The logic is that a coach does not need a warning from each uninformed official. When I see my partners stop sign, it carries the same weight as if I had given it. Your partners probably won't see your calm verbal warning. Then, when they get near the coach, they may feel obligated to give their calm verbal warning. The public display eliminates this redundancy.

Mulk

You can talk to your partners about your warning. Also there is not a guarantee that your partners saw your stop sign.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Rocky,

Around here, the stop sign is used to communicate with your partners as well as the caoch. The logic is that a coach does not need a warning from each uninformed official. When I see my partners stop sign, it carries the same weight as if I had given it. Your partners probably won't see your calm verbal warning. Then, when they get near the coach, they may feel obligated to give their calm verbal warning. The public display eliminates this redundancy.

Mulk

If I give a warning to the coach, my partners will know - I will let them know...and I agree with the logic about not needing a warning from each official. But I think you missed my point - the stop sign is a public display and - agree or not- many coaches take that as you "showing them up"...a calm "Coach, that's enough. This is your official warning" works much better than a stop sign and is much better communication...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

But I think you missed my point - the stop sign is a public display and - agree or not- many coaches take that as you "showing them up"...a calm "Coach, that's enough. This is your official warning" works much better than a stop sign and is much better communication...

I completely agree.

Peace

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If I give a warning to the coach, my partners will know - I will let them know...and I agree with the logic about not needing a warning from each official. But I think you missed my point - the stop sign is a public display and - agree or not- many coaches take that as you "showing them up"...a calm "Coach, that's enough. This is your official warning" works much better than a stop sign and is much better communication...

Rocky,

I like what you are saying. But how do you "let your partners know"? Is there some private less insulting signal that you use among the officials? Do you tell them at the next dead ball? Halftime? Did the coach ever do something before you got around to letting them know? Do you ever wish you had already told them about your calm warning as the coach is jawing at your partner a few seconds later?

I'm not disagreeing - just trying to understand how you are communicating this while the game is going on?

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You can talk to your partners about your warning. Also there is not a guarantee that your partners saw your stop sign.

Peace

Rut,

Which goes back to the original question - how long do you hold your stop sign. Long enough for my partners to see it. Which, is why we give it around here? I'm not going to worry too much about hurting a bickering coach's feelings.

Anyway, how do you let your partners know?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Rut,

Which goes back to the original question - how long do you hold your stop sign. Long enough for my partners to see it. Which, is why we give it around here? I'm not going to worry too much about hurting a bickering coach's feelings.

I did not say you cared about whether you hurt the feelings of a coach. But if you "show them up" you might have made a minor situation into a big fire. Now something that could have been solved with a quite word not put you in a no-win situation where no matter what you do it will likely be wrong. As Tomegun has said, many times it does not prevent anything when you give that signal. You end up giving a T anyway if you just read these stories about the "stop sign."

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Anyway, how do you let your partners know?

How do you let your partner know anything? You go up to them and tell them. You wait for a dead ball and you tell them. Timeouts, FT situations, an extended delay, walking buy a partner after a foul you tell them. You do talk to your partners during the game about other things don't you?

Peace

[tomegun]

Yeah, there is nothing like talking to your partners to let them know something. It amazes me how so many people preach about communication and then can't automatically realize that talking to your partners is a form of communication. Another reason why I don't like the stop sign; like other things, it is a substitute for that good old-fashioned voice.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Yeah, there is nothing like talking to your partners to let them know something. It amazes me how so many people preach about communication and then can't automatically realize that talking to your partners is a form of communication. Another reason why I don't like the stop sign; like other things, it is a substitute for that good old-fashioned voice.

Yup.

Peace

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Yeah, there is nothing like talking to your partners to let them know something. It amazes me how so many people preach about communication and then can't automatically realize that talking to your partners is a form of communication. Another reason why I don't like the stop sign; like other things, it is a substitute for that good old-fashioned voice.

You have to be next to a coach to calmly give him his warning don't you? If you are next to the coach and your partners aren't, how do you talk to your partners? I can't automatically understand how you can use your good old-fashioned voice across the floor and not show the coach up. If you do it at an appropriate or later non-insulting time, has it ever been too late?

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

You have to be next to a coach to calmly give him his warning don't you? If you are next to the coach and your partners aren't, how do you talk to your partners? I can't automatically understand how you can use your good old-fashioned voice across the floor and not show the coach up. If you do it at an appropriate or later non-insulting time, has it ever been too late?

I will use my voice to communicate with my partners the same way I tell them about timeouts, about problem players, about the bonus situation and other things.

"Hey Ronny, we are in the bonus on this end."
"Hey Ronny, we need to watch red 23 and white 4."
"Hey Ronny, the coach has been warned."
"Hey Ronny, I have the clock."

If it is too late, would the stop sign have worked? There is nothing to guarnatee it.

[Time2Ref]

It's a matter of human relations. What works for one official, might not work for another official. What works for one official with a particular coach, might not work for that same official with a differant coach on a differant night.

How long do I hold the stop sign? Depends: I am still holding up the stop sign for that coach LAST week. I think he is still complaining. LOL.

Remember good mechanics when using the stop sign. Make sure to keep your hand a a 90 degree angle with the floor. Push your arm straight out towards the coach. You don't want to look like your giving the "Heil Hitler" signal. LOL.

[Ignats75]

My take on stop signs......

They're fine for some situations, not all situations. However, if used they are a final warning. Someone had better cease and desist immediately or the "T" should be given, also immediately. You sureasheck don't hold one for 7-8 seconds while a coach continues to jabber at you. You also sureasheck don't use it multi times on the same person. That's just repeating your warning while not doing anything about it. A stop sign is just the non-verbal way to say "that's enough"-- and mean it.

As a user of the stop sign, although late on this quote (page1) its absolutely right. Every official has a different tolerance level of coaches. The spectrum goes from too lenient to too much of a hard azz and everywhere in between. I would like to think that I am somewhere in the middle maybe leaning towards leniency, since I used to belong to the dark side (coaching). So, if a coach is expressing frustration, without crossing the line, I will try and communicate with him(her). If the coach doesn't like or react well to my answer, the stop sign is coming out. That's it. Next time the coach acts up...WHACK! But if I just whack a coach after trying to communicate to him(her) what I saw or called it could appear on tape that I went over there to pick a fight. I certainly don't want to get THAT reputation as my assignments will start to dry up.

As another veteran official I respect once said....

STOP
LOCK & LOAD (whistle in your mouth)
FIRE (WHACK)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tomegun

"Hey Ronny, we need to watch red 23 and white 4."

That's very effective usually if red 23 and white 4 can hear you also. Or if you've made sure that they can hear you....

AKA a verbal stop sign.

[Time2Ref]

Where on the survey is the: "Sometimes" option?