Backcourt Violation - Mavs Heat

[BktBallRef]

Hey Mark, your blog says, "And for the record, I have nothing to say about the finals. That was last season." So why are you here, posting about the Finals? We're dying to know!

[mcuban]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Hey Mark, your blog says, "And for the record, I have nothing to say about the finals. That was last season." So why are you here, posting about the Finals? We're dying to know!

Because this isnt my blog. This is an officials forum.

because i thought i might find some interesting discussion among officials who might offer some interesting perspective. instead i get a lot of the same nonsense in the comments on my blog. So far at least. But im holding out hope.

this would be a great place to get an officials point of view of what they saw in the finals. Instead, anyone who took a viewpoint that questioned the officials, got crucified. They got asked for example. I provided them. Hopefully there will be some discussion on them.

I also like to lurk here to see what people say about the process of becoming an NBA official, what they think of the officiating in the NBA, etc.


Why I post on this and other forums is always different than what i post on my blog. otherwise I would just post it on my blog !

either way, thanks for reading the blog !

m

[BktBallRef]

Oh yeah. Whenever the NBA fines you for your blog, I always pull it up to see what you wrote!

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by mcuban

this would be a great place to get an officials point of view of what they saw in the finals.

Okay, I play along with you that you''re the owner of the Dallas Mavericks. Obviously, I have no way of knowing whether you are or not. Just as obviously, I have to doubt it. But I'll humor you.

First, this is an officiating site. Those who come here and present plays and ask for interpretations will get a correct rulling. Posters who come here to complain about offficiating and how their team was robbed get destroyed. This is our forum. We hear enough of that $hit from fans who don;t know the rules when we're on the floor. We don't have to listen to it here and we won't. Those posters are referred to as fanboys.

Second, the NBA officials are the best basketball officials in the world. Evenso, they make mistakes. Every officials who blows a whistle makes mistakes. They aren't perfect, none of us are. The first perfect game has yet to be officiated, played or coached.

Third, a foul in basketball is the most subjective call in sports, with soccer obviously a close second. It's in the eye of the beholder, within the established standards. Consistency can only extend to a certain point. I don;t buy into the conspriacy theory. I believe just as many calls are missed/made on one end as the other. The number of FTs taken doesn't dick. Styles of play, strategy and other issues alter that number. It's a poor way to examinate officiating.

Finally, The NBA Finals, Mark Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks. You, Don Nelson, and Avery Johnson have done a tremendous job building the team. However, during the Finals, you were the story, not your team. You took the focus off them. While I'm 100% sure you're not an idiot, as I have said you certainly act like one at the games. Perhaps it would be good to separate owner and fan. You gave your guys an excuse to lose. "It's the refs fault. Blame on the refs!"

Josh Howard knows damn well he called a timeout. He asked for it, put his hands together and started moving toward the bench. He had a Chris Webber look on his face if there's ever been one. If he didn't want a timeout, he should have been screaming at the top of his lungs. But he didn't becasue he knew he had screwed up. But the next day, he's full of stories.

You wanted a foul on Wade for that little bit of contact? Were you an NBA fan when Jordan was still dominating? In playoff series against the Pacers, Reggie Miller shoved jordan all the way to the division line, caught the inbounds pass and hit a game winning 3. There was 10 times the contact on that play than there was on the Wade-Terry play. It's not a foul. BTW, that's not Joe DeRosa's call from the lead position.

It's the name of the game these days. Blame the refs. World cup, Super Bowl, NBA Finals, youth league baseball, HS football, it makes no difference. People like yourself, people of position and power, just make it worse.

That's my point of view. Best of luck next year.

[mcuban]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Okay, I play along with you that you''re the owner of the Dallas Mavericks. Obviously, I have no way of knowing whether you are or not. Just as obviously, I have to doubt it. But I'll humor you.

its me

First, this is an officiating site. Those who come here and present plays and ask for interpretations will get a correct rulling. Posters who come here to complain about offficiating and how their team was robbed get destroyed. This is our forum. We hear enough of that $hit from fans who don;t know the rules when we're on the floor. We don't have to listen to it here and we won't. Those posters are referred to as fanboys.

understood

Second, the NBA officials are the best basketball officials in the world. Evenso, they make mistakes. Every officials who blows a whistle makes mistakes. They aren't perfect, none of us are. The first perfect game has yet to be officiated, played or coached.

The top ones are, not all. The top 60 arent the top 60 in the world. But they should be. This isnt a knock on the officials or the effort they put in. Its a slam of the hiring and training practices.



Third, a foul in basketball is the most subjective call in sports, with soccer obviously a close second. It's in the eye of the beholder, within the established standards. Consistency can only extend to a certain point. I don;t buy into the conspriacy theory. I believe just as many calls are missed/made on one end as the other. The number of FTs taken doesn't dick. Styles of play, strategy and other issues alter that number. It's a poor way to examinate officiating.

You never heard a word from me comparing number of free throws taken. Nor the number of fouls. i dont buy into the conspiracy theory either. I think over a course of years, the calls even out. In the course of several games, it depends on how evenly matched the 2 teams are and who the officials are. Not all officials are equally good. the disparity can be large. Thats a problem in the NBA.




Finally, The NBA Finals, Mark Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks. You, Don Nelson, and Avery Johnson have done a tremendous job building the team. However, during the Finals, you were the story, not your team. You took the focus off them. While I'm 100% sure you're not an idiot, as I have said you certainly act like one at the games. Perhaps it would be good to separate owner and fan. You gave your guys an excuse to lose. "It's the refs fault. Blame on the refs!"


I wont tell you how to be a ref. If you think the headlines you see, or the 1 minute segments you watch reflect reality, well then...I might as well tell you how to officiate. Our team didnt use any excuses. Our team didnt blame the games on the refs.

Everyone saw what they saw. They saw me get pissed at Derosa for being out of position and missing a crucial call. It happens. you didnt see a single player complain to the officials. You saw me and AJ question calls that were questionable.

You are right, officials miss calls. And officials can hit sour stretches. The best ones dont. Some do. enough said there.





Josh Howard knows damn well he called a timeout. He asked for it, put his hands together and started moving toward the bench. He had a Chris Webber look on his face if there's ever been one. If he didn't want a timeout, he should have been screaming at the top of his lungs. But he didn't becasue he knew he had screwed up. But the next day, he's full of stories.

No he didnt. Watch the tape. Watch it 10 times. Watch every timeout called in the nba this year. In none of them will you see a player make the timeout signal WITHOUT looking at and at least trying to get the attention of the official. Particularly in a game where the arena is loud. It NEVER happens. You couldnt find a single instance in the NBA where a timeout was given where some sort of contact wasnt made with the official. Josh never spoke to, tapped on a shoulder, or even looked at any of the officials. Josh says it. The tape confirms it.

What he was trying to do is confirm with AJ what to do. Again, you couldnt hear anything in the building, it was too loud. He couldnt just shout over. How else would he confirm with his coach to make sure he understoo what he wanted ? (and no, you cant cover every instance in a huddle before hand, and good for josh for wanting to confirm it anyway). so he walked towards the coach making the Timeout sign and AJ made the timeout sign back. Happens all the time.

mistake by the officials .The fact that the league issued a statement to contrary, well look at the tape again and make your own decisions.


You wanted a foul on Wade for that little bit of contact? Were you an NBA fan when Jordan was still dominating? In playoff series against the Pacers, Reggie Miller shoved jordan all the way to the division line, caught the inbounds pass and hit a game winning 3. There was 10 times the contact on that play than there was on the Wade-Terry play. It's not a foul. BTW, that's not Joe DeRosa's call from the lead position.

dont start with relative calls from 10 years ago. Thats fanboy material. '

And no, it was Salvatores call. Its Derosas job to rotate to get an angle when so match action is happening out of his primary. He stood there. Staring at the action.



It's the name of the game these days. Blame the refs. World cup, Super Bowl, NBA Finals, youth league baseball, HS football, it makes no difference. People like yourself, people of position and power, just make it worse.

That's my point of view. Best of luck next year.

In this area, you have no idea what you are talking about. I got fined for saying that we should use the best refs in the playoffs, not use the playoffs as a means of promoting refs (37 of 60 refs officiated in the playoffs this year).

Blame the refs. no. You dont see me blaming joe or danny crawford or javie Even Bavetta. They all called GREAT games. GREAT GREAT games.

Not everyone is up to their standards.

Thats a shame, because with the resourcesavailable to the NBA, we could get the rest of the staff far, far closer.


have you ever tried to make it to the NBA ? talked to those who have ?

Do you realize there are about 10x as many officials in the NBA that have called Belmont vs Winthrop as Duke vs UNC ? Why do you think that is ?

Im curious from to hear about it from someone in the business ?

[mcuban]

in the last message i replied to some of the issues in the original text.

sorry for the confusion..

m

[mcuban]

http://www.82games.com/game5refs.htm

[BktBallRef]

Pardon me but WTF is Roland Beech and what are his credentials with regard to officiating? IOW why should anyone care what he thinks?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by mcuban

http://www.82games.com/game5refs.htm

I didn't see listed this researcher's qualifications to judge the officiating. However, his genuine belief that the broadcasters on the game are either unbiased or suitably knowledgeable is good reason to doubt his qualifications.

You and we all know that a broadcaster's primary role is to boost ratings. You only need look as far as the failed experiment of putting Earl Strom in the broadcast booth to realize that what drives ratings is not actual rules knowledge or an experienced opinion. What boosts ratings is psuedo-authoritarian (meaning somebody who appears suitably authoritative to the viewer) non-stop sportscaster drivel that makes as much sense to the drunk fans as the sober. Ask yourself, if a controversial call is made, and it's technically correct for reasons that would baffle, or worse bore, viewers, what's your average sportscaster going to do? He's going to bemoan how that was the worst call ever, how it was totally baffling, how the call was made by a rulebook official intent on making himself appear more important than the game. His color commentator will then corroborate his opinion by confessing his complete puzzlement over what just happened. The call will then either fade away into irritating insignificance, or better yet, turn into the kind of controversy that will keep viewers buzzing until the next game. The guy who can keep the viewers buzzing...will be back next season.

While this researcher's data is certainly interesting, and appears to be a genuine attempt at unbiased analysis, it's ultimately just one more opinion from somebody not qualified to give an authoritative evaluation of the officiating.

But thanks for the link, it was interesting reading.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mcuban

http://www.82games.com/game5refs.htm

Here's another independant observation on you and your Maverick fans, Markie:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...hitlock/060622

From some of the posts in this thread, I don't think that Whitlock is too far off the mark.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mcuban

In this area, you have no idea what you are talking about. I got fined for saying that we should use the best refs in the playoffs, not use the playoffs as a means of promoting refs (37 of 60 refs officiated in the playoffs this year).

Well Mark, who the best officials and the worst officials are is very subjective point of view. Also the "best" cannot work every night and every game. Someone that is not the "best" is going to work some time.

Originally Posted by mcuban

Blame the refs. no. You dont see me blaming joe or danny crawford or javie Even Bavetta. They all called GREAT games. GREAT GREAT games.

Not everyone is up to their standards.

Thats a shame, because with the resourcesavailable to the NBA, we could get the rest of the staff far, far closer.

No you could not. Not everyone wants to be an NBA official. The top NCAA officials make more money than a rookie NBA official. They also have better job security and they are not considered expendable.

Originally Posted by mcuban

have you ever tried to make it to the NBA ? talked to those who have ?

Yes I have Mark. I have also talked to some officials in the NBA. It is not all peaches and cream and it is also a game that many "amateur" officials like or even respect. Other than a few playoff games I cannot watch the NBA anymore.

Originally Posted by mcuban

Do you realize there are about 10x as many officials in the NBA that have called Belmont vs Winthrop as Duke vs UNC ? Why do you think that is ?

This statement does not even make any sense. Either way it goes not everyone wants to be in the NBA.

Peace

[Snake~eyes]

Can we get an email check on this guy. Brad/Mick? I don't believe its him either, but just for ****s and giggles.

Either that or email me saying its you from a mavericks email addy: [email protected]

[Larks]

For the record - I was initially suspicious too. Last night, I sent an e-mail to him with the subject official forum and and got one back from his dallasmavs.com account almost immediately. Believe it or not, I think this is the real...Mark Cuban.

I wonder if this thread ends up as long as that MLB thread?!?

[mcuban]

[QUOTE=JRutledge]Well Mark, who the best officials and the worst officials are is very subjective point of view. Also the "best" cannot work every night and every game. Someone that is not the "best" is going to work some time.



No you could not. Not everyone wants to be an NBA official. The top NCAA officials make more money than a rookie NBA official. They also have better job security and they are not considered expendable.




- So what you are saying is
1. we dont have the top 60 officials available.
2. If we paid more to start officials with years of college experience who had reached a level of expertise based on the measurement techniques we currently use we could attract better, more qualified officials ? Im for that. In fact, im pushing for that.

As far as being considered "expendable". Could you explain more about that ? Seriously, would like to know more about what you are saying there.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally Posted by mcuban

- So what you are saying is
1. we dont have the top 60 officials available.
2. If we paid more to start officials with years of college experience who had reached a level of expertise based on the measurement techniques we currently use we could attract better, more qualified officials ? Im for that. In fact, im pushing for that.

As far as being considered "expendable". Could you explain more about that ? Seriously, would like to know more about what you are saying there.

I have talked to many NBA officials, supervisors, former nba officials and what I hear most is that its just not worth it. There are some NCAA officials that could be in the NBA but don't want to because working NBA basketball sucks. You are under large amounts of scrutiny, you are gone 6 (7?) months out of the year, away from any family/friends that you may have. Sure the pay is good but to me its just not worth it, when I can be working a full NCAA schedule, making good money off of a few months out of the year AND I have my regular job which is bringing in my benefits and steady income. Furthermore if I want I can take any day off from officiating basketball, all i have to do is scratch it and I'm good to go. Probably no such system, after hearing NBA officials talk about how they miss their kids birthdays, tball games, christmas...yadyadyada it just doesn't seem worth it to me. Why put yourself through it?

Also I think the basketball sucks, if we took out pay and travel and all that crap. And I just was picking the game to officiate (NBA or NCAA) then I would take a D1 college game. I really don't like the NBA game, I don't watch much NBA during the year, only the playoffs pretty much. And that's only because I like to watch the officials mainly.

Seriously, who wants to go to Dallas and have to listen to you yelling in their face? It's like you want good officials yet you yell and scream at them. Why do I want that? Explain to me what's so good about being an NBA official?