Backcourt Violation - Mavs Heat

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by mcuban

No, Mark Cuban , the idiot was screaming because DeRosa didnt rotate to be in position to see Wade push off on Terry. Salvatore should have called, but in the event his angle was bad, Derosa had nothing else going on and should have been able to see the ball.

At least according to my understanding of Ronnie Nunn mechanics. You got a good reason why he didnt move ?

i didnt see it as a backcourt until after i saw the tape. The league said i was wrong. Fine.

I still cant find "positive possession " defined anywhere in the rule book. Can you ?

In fact, 2 NBA officials gave me different definitions of what it meant.

Welcome to NBA officiating.

Of course the most entertaining part of the play was the look on Joe Crawfords face when Salvatore blew the whistle from 30 feet away , on a play right in front of Joey

LOL! You're worse than a fanboy! You're a wannabe fanboy!

Mark Cuban my azz!! Go away wannabe fanboy.

[mcuban]

Originally Posted by Larks

Welcome aboard Mr. Cuban.

Was at an officials camp this weekend and heard from a reasonably realiable source that the game 5 questionable calls in the last few seconds were both CCs and that the crew received one of the highest ratings for a NBA playoff game ever.

Your comment if any.

Welcome to the NBA.

I have lined up calls where they were considered CC or NCC one game and ICC and NCI the next game. same play, different call. Both were called correct by the nba. thats the way it works.

i saw the commentary they gave online. its NBA 101. They called the DWade pushoff a "slip" by Terry. Now i was there, saw jason fall back. It didnt look to anyone anywhere he slipped. Avery is right there as well. So is bennet.

In the NBA, when the offensive player puts his hand on the defenders hip, then extends his arm, even if by an act of God there was a gust of wind that pushed the defender back while the offensive player slipped forward arm extended, they will call an offensive foul. Particularly when the official is staring right at the play.

With the benefit of replay, not only can you see the push, and how terry reacts, but you can see the effort by Wade to regain his balance after he pushes him. It was an offensive foul.

Then in the same desc of the same play, where the foul is called on Nowitzki, every replay angle shows dirk had the same bend in his elbow throughout the play. so unless he is on roller skates or much faster than he is laterally, he didnt push him. Nothing in wades body language suggest he did either.

Wade was on his way down to the floor and looking at a travel if he didnt toss it up. watch the replay.

But the best of all, is watching Joey Crawford. Joey has the eye on it the entire play. You can see where he is looking. How he is following the play. Like a complete pro. When he hears the whistle from Salvatore. Watch what he does. It says it all.

The NBA will only rarely admit in public its wrong. The clock malfunction. It ALWAYS malfunctions. So the officials know to track it. But when the game lost 2.9 seconds, only the clock was wrong.

The time outs by howard. You show me anywhere in a tape, any tape from any angle where Josh Howard said a word to Joe Derosa. Not only is he not in his vicinity, but given how loud the arena was, there was no chance he shouted anything to him.

Then read the official statement that came after the game Good for joey for taking the heat and sticking by his guy. Thats admirable. But the bottom line is that its the NBA.

As happens so often when i ask folks inside the NBA...."come on mark, what did you expect ?"

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by mcuban

How about this.

I can give you an off the top of my head listing from the last 3 minutes of Game 3. Feel free to go to the tape. These may not be in chronological order, but they are all in the last 180 seconds, so they arent hard to find.

1. Push off by shaq on dampier going for offensive rebound., right in front of Jack Nies

2. Minimal contact at most in backcourt by Terry on Wade. Its possible Nies thought it was an intentional foul and blew the whistle.

3. Haslem runs through Nowitzki to get a deflection which lead to his fastbreak

4. Terry runs down haslem and cleanly strips ball. Danny Crawford did a great job of staying ahead of the play and is staring right at the play and you can see his eyes following the ball off of haslems leg and out of bounds with no whistle. The miss comes when Ken mauer makes the call from at least 30 feet behind.

5. Shot that put Heat ahead. Payton pump fakes, sees Howard flying at him, rather than jumping into Howard and probably getting a legit foul and going to the line, he switches his pivot feet , dribbles to clear howard and hits his shot.

6. The precision timing system had been malfunctioning. In fact, its been doing so for years. The officials knew to be vigilant on the clock. Onthe above mentioned Terry foul, rather than the crew watching the clock , it runs down and no one catches it.

7. the same thing happens again with the clock a 2nd time, i think when dirk was fouled. Both were admitted by the league. Saying it was purely a clock malfunction.

Now these are 7 obvious miscues in the last 3 minutes of Game 3. would you like more ?

do i think the officials were out to get the Mavs ? no chance.

Do i think we put our officials in position to succeed. No.

Sorry, I was wrong.

You are a moron.

[mcuban]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

LOL! You're worse than a fanboy! You're a wannabe fanboy!

Mark Cuban my azz!! Go away wannabe fanboy.

its me. you can email me at [email protected] and I will confirm.

i read referee magazine too . Also get the officiating.com email. Havent bought the tapes though.

want me to tell you the story about bennet salvatore and bobby valentine being friends that was in last months magazine ?

I dont get upset because of missed calls. I get mad because we often have guys who shouldnt be put in the position they are in. There is far too much politics in the NBA.

Start a thread in this forum about what it takes to be an NBA ref. Im sure there are lots of folks who can provide a ton of feedback about that.

I only wish I could say what i know.

Officials miss calls. I get calls wrong. But i read the rule book. I read the casebooks. I have someone who has worked for the league review every game and brutally access calls so i have an understanding of how games are called and who is good and who isnt.

I track numbers. not because there is a right number for any call, but because when there is a huge variance in which refs call or dont call which violation, its an advantage. It also allows me to understand some of the politics going on. Across an entire season one crew shouldnt be calling a call 3x or 4x times another crew. Unless something is up in how officials and management interact.

There are officials who went MONTHS without calling defensive 3 secs. We use that. Now its impossible to officiate 30 games and not see it. But those same refs grade highly. Put on your management hat. When an official has chosen not to make a specific call and is able to do so for an extended period of time, what does that reflect to you ?


We also track it because we are part of the officials grade. What the team says doesnt have much impact on their assignments, but it has a tiny bit, and i want to be fair to those who are doing a good job and might not have the reputation.

Believe it or not, there are a ton of officials who quietly are hoping i can take the politics out of the group. So that evaluations are evaluations and nothing more or less.

[mcuban]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Sorry, I was wrong.

You are a moron.

So what are you saying ? That you ask for examples, but now that you have some, you arent capable of looking at a tape ?

Geez... you would think someone like Mark Cuban would make comments like that about officials

m

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Sorry, I was wrong.

You are a moron.

Fanboys.......

Do they really think that anyone except other fanboys take 'em seriously? Hell, nobody takes the real Cuban seriously, let alone this idiot, except other Dallas fanboys.

You know the scary part? Some of these fanboys are actually allowed to drive and vote? Brrrrrrrrr......scary!

[mcuban]

Originally Posted by Larks

With respect, what could / should be done differently in your opinion?

Also, whats your take on the RA (aka half circle in the paint)? I think it adds a pretty complex thought process an official has to go through when considerig block / charge.

I have suggested to the competition committee every year for the last 3 that we move the restricted area circle out to almost the foul line.

Its obviously a tough call, but its made harder in the NBA because its not where was the defender when the contact was made, its "where are the defenders feat when the offensive player gathers the ball to go up for a shot". With 7footers now able to take long strides. A guy could start the process of putting up a floater 2 feet away from the RA circle , which gives defenders way too much time to slide in. Its an almost impossible call to get right in that circumstance.

Thats not putting an official in a position to succeed.

and as far as what I meant. Read my blog that got me fined. It wasnt a criticism of any official. In fact, i have a lot of officials who are pushing just that and agree with me

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mcuban

Geez... you would think someone like Mark Cuban would make comments like that about officials

Nope, I think that trolls like you really need to get a life. I wasn't kidding about that.

[mcuban]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Geeze, another whiny azzhole shows up.....weeks after the game was played......


Let it go. It's only the NBA. Nobody cares.

sorry i didnt get here soon enough for you. I didnt realize it was you schedule that controlled the forum.

And I care about the NBA. A lot. Financially and as a fan of the game.I dont know what made you so bitter, but I came here to see what the perspective of officials was.

Someone made the comment that everyone gangs up together. Now I know that it happens at all levels.

thats for the reinforcement

m

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by mcuban

So what are you saying ? That you ask for examples, but now that you have some, you arent capable of looking at a tape ?

Geez... you would think someone like Mark Cuban would make comments like that about officials

m

I dont need to look at any tape, I find the nba too irrelevant to watch once, let alone tape it & watch it again.

I asked for examples of bad calls going for & against both sides so you can back up your claim the officials screwed the chokers from dallas, along with their annoyingly immature coach & tweeked up wannabe jock owner. You puked a dog's lunch which included misbehaving clocks.

Care to try again?

[mcuban]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I dont need to look at any tape, I find the nba too irrelevant to watch once, let alone tape it & watch it again.

I asked for examples of bad calls going for & against both sides so you can back up your claim the officials screwed the chokers from dallas, along with their annoyingly immature coach & tweeked up wannabe jock owner. You puked a dog's lunch which included misbehaving clocks.

Care to try again?

i deal with people like you every day. Im sure this forum is your finest hour.

www.fallenpatriotfund.org for mine

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mcuban

Its obviously a tough call, but its made harder in the NBA because its not where was the defender when the contact was made, its "where are the defenders feat when the offensive player gathers the ball to go up for a shot". With 7footers now able to take long strides. A guy could start the process of putting up a floater 2 feet away from the RA circle , which gives defenders way too much time to slide in. Its an almost impossible call to get right in that circumstance.

Lah me, a fanboy gets outed.

That's funny.

Try "when the offensive player leaves his feet", dickhead- not where the ball is gathered---- same as every other ruleset in the world.

I hate to have to be the one to tell you, but you're not even doing a fair job of imitating Willie the Whiner.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by mcuban

i deal with people like you every day. Im sure this forum is your finest hour.

www.fallenpatriotfund.org for mine

Here's the difference between us, little markie: you're obsessed with defining my finest hour.

I don't care enough about you to think about any of your hours, finest or otherwise.

Enjoy dealing with the losers in your life. If your team is any indication I'm quite sure you have your hands full.

[mcuban]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Lah me, a fanboy gets outed.

That's funny.

Try "when the offensive player leaves his feet", dickhead- not where the ball is gathered---- same as every other ruleset in the world.

you might want to check on that. Since you dont follow the NBA, things may have changed since the Mikan era when you were up to speed
2005-6 casebook p8. #28
"def player must establish himself before the offensive player starts his upward shooting motion in order to draw an offensive foul"


nice try fanboy. No, i take that back. That would be an insult to fanboys everywhere


m

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mcuban

you might want to check on that. Since you dont follow the NBA, things may have changed since the Mikan era when you were up to speed
2005-6 casebook p8. #28
"def player must establish himself before the offensive player starts his upward shooting motion in order to draw an offensive foul"

You may want to find someone to explain some rules to you, fanboy. What you picked out has got nothing to do at all, in any way,shape or form, with the restricted area circle.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_c....av=ArticleList

How about you telling us what is applicable?

On second thought, fuggedaboutit. I must be nuts wasting time with these idiot fanboys.

Keep trolling....