I don't T coaches?!

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by mnref14
Too many softies on this board!!!!!! Yes, Dan - You can partially disect something. And on second thought, if I want to judge someone - I will - even if it makes the softies upset. 19 T's is too many, unless you're working a goofy City Men's League or the NBA. That's my opinion, and I'm most always right. Now I'm stirring the pot!!!!

So over 29 posts in 2+ months, you have told everyone that you're always right, other officials are clowns, etc., etc., and you still wonder why those of us who have been around this board for a while respond negatively to your posts???? If you have clear rules knowledge that someone is wrong, post it and prove it, but coming in here with your "opinions" and spouting off as you have been turns most people's stomachs...

[mnref14]

That's 29 posts in 13 months - which is a little over 2 a month; I'll never keep pace with your 200+ per year. Oh well, I believe in quality not quantity. Could you be a little more overdramatic please??? "It turns my stomach," you may be taking this a little too seriously. Do you have clear knowledge that it "turns most people's stomachs." Please don't misquote me, I never said I was always right and I never said anyone on here is a clown - I've never seen with my own eyes anyone on here officiate. Geez, its getting hot in here.........

[icallfouls]

mnref14, I believe you that expect to have a short career as an official, or you do not have the stones to take care of business when the situation arises. What you are really saying is that you never miss a call, the players and coaches always agree with you, the coach never leaves the box, the coach never goes sideways, an assistant coach never pops off about you missing a rebound foul. So I will congratulate you on working the NCAA Championship game this year, oh wait, those guys have definitely T'd up more than 19 coaches in their careers.

I work HS (8 yrs)and college ball (5 yrs). This year, I T'd up 4 coaches in roughly 50 games and there are others that I should've, as Rockyroad can attest. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that I have averaged 3 T's on coaches since I started, that is 25 T's over roughly 400 games. I assure you there should've been more, which only exaserbated some situations.

T's are about crossing the line of sportsmanship and where I believe that line is. Your line must be alot different than most of the forum members and definitely Ref18's. What you are communicating to coaches and players is where your line starts, once they understand this about you, they will know when a T is deserved. Your slug line is: big time ref's make big time calls in big time situations. Welcome to the big time!

If you and I are on a crew, I can tell you that it makes me uncomfortable knowing that you might let something go rather than addressing it. I truly doubt that you would have your crews' back, maybe a knife instead.

Whew! it sure is hot in here.

[Edited by icallfouls on Mar 11th, 2004 at 01:39 PM]

[mnref14]

Oh, so if I don't T up a certain # of coaches per year its because I don't have sack - I get it. I hear your argument, 19 in a career is Pie in the Sky, wishful thinking. But hey, my career thus far is almost a mirror image of yours - years of experience wise - I work some JuCo, D II and D III all Men's and I just haven't had to T coaches very often. I'm not afraid of it, I just do my best to work with the coaches so its not necessary. And please don't insinuate I don't have my partner's back, that's just not true. I love the attempt at getting me riled though, I love trash talk - but if I ever heard it in a game I'd T someone for it!!!!!!!!! Peace OUT.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by mnref14

...I just haven't had to T coaches very often. I'm not afraid of it, I just do my best to work with the coaches so its not necessary. And please don't insinuate I don't have my partner's back, that's just not true. I love the attempt at getting me riled though, I love trash talk - but if I ever heard it in a game I'd T someone for it!!!!!!!!! Peace OUT.

Here's what is so annoying about you:

You have absolutely no problem with making blanket statements about people you would not know if you tripped over them in the locker room simply based on the number of T's they claim to throw. Yet you continue to cry like a little girl when folks make blanket statements about you, based only on what you've posted.

You've done your work, you got a big rise out of the crowd, now might be a good time to go back under that rock.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mnref14
19 flippin' T's?????? If it is legitimate basketball, I can not imagine how it is possible. To get that many coaches heated up is hard work, I don't know how an assignor would give you games if you gave out that many T's - how many of those were given because of a completely wrong coach who was upset for no apparent reason? I bet 7 tops. The other 12 were probably a result of various reasons, including working 200 games!!

Uh, how do you know exactly what any of those 19 T's were for anyway? How do you know that they weren't all completely justifed? And why do insist on crapping on one of your fellow officials- Ref 18- without knowing any of the circumstances that were involved with these T's?

Every official establishes their own do-not-cross line when it comes to issuing technical fouls. From an assignor's standpoint (and I am an assignor), I basically don't give a a sh*t if somebody calls more or less T's than someone else. I do care that they are keeping the game under control, and are making sure that is played fairly and in a sportsmanlike manner. If that's the end result that they get, then I'm not gonna second guess the guy that ends up leading the "T" parade, nor will I second guess someone that may not call a "T" all year. Both these guys might be doing the same great job, but they're just doing it differently. I do worry about officials who might second-guess another official's judgement, though, without finding out exactly what all the facts were.

[mnref14]

Ain't hypocrisy a Son of a Gun????? You've got a problem with me using blanket statements, but you'll assume that I'm a bad guy who crawled out from under a rock because I dared to state an opinion. On this board, and in the world today the only people who are safe are those who don't share their opinions or those who play both sides of an issue; I'm bold and brave enough to stand up and have a target on my back and call it the way I see it. Screw it, until Ref 18(who may do a great job, btw) gets a chance to explain the situations, I'll stand by my opinion: 19 coach T's in a season is too many. My guess is a lot of his/her T's came in non-HS or College settings - I'm interested to hear.

Jurassic - As officials we're not allowed to second-guess each other????? Well I guess we're all just fine and don't need to work to improve, because anyone who would dare second-guess us is wrong. Come on now, this is a fairly competitive profession we're in - second-guessing does and should take place. That's how we seperate the Men/Women from the boys/girls.

Once again, sorry if I'm ruining your day; but we don't need to slap each other on the back and agree all of the time. I've said it before, I feel quite confident that most of the officials who come on here are great professionalls because they care about improving their games.

[Adam]

Originally posted by mnref14
Is there any chance I could make a post where every word isn't totally dissected???? You sound like Bill Clinton, "it depends what your definition of the word 'should' is." And I'm not judging anyone, I'm just curious. I feel like I'm being attacked by a very sensitive group of folks who run this board, I think I'll call you all the "Politically Correct Officials Forum Protectors." You're always there to make sure no one's feelings get hurt or toes get stepped on, its very sweet of you!!! Have a good day.

I think the proper response to rainmaker here would be, "Good point."
Aside from that, you've got it backwards. rainmaker was the one actually reading your exact words. We can only figure out what you mean by reading your words, so you should expectt his kind of response when you say something this absolute. Or, are you suggesting "should" means something different to you than it does the rest of us?
Why is a skeptical response to your post seen as an "attack?"

[Rich]

Originally posted by mnref14
Too many softies on this board!!!!!! Yes, Dan - You can partially disect something. And on second thought, if I want to judge someone - I will - even if it makes the softies upset. 19 T's is too many, unless you're working a goofy City Men's League or the NBA. That's my opinion, and I'm most always right. Now I'm stirring the pot!!!!

Softies? Maybe. Troll? I can think of one without even thinking too hard.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mnref14


Jurassic - As officials we're not allowed to second-guess each other?????

Yes,we are.However, I've been trying very hard not to second-guess you here, but you're making it awful difficult. Why won't you answer any simple questions?

Let me try again:

Please give me just one instance out of the 19 T's issued by Ref18 where you are sure he was wrong to issue that T. Not all 19- just one! Then give me your reasoning or opinion as to exactly why Ref18 was wrong to issue a T in that particular case. In other words, tell us why that coach's behavior didn't really warrant a T in that particular case, and what you would have done in lieu of issuing that T. Remember- you don't have to do that for all 19 T's that you disagree with. Just pick one. You are completely adamant that Ref18 was wrong to issue those T's, so I would just like to know exactly what you are basing your opinion on. I await your answer, so that we can continue our delightful conversation.

Btw, don't mind Dan. He can be a little crude at times, but he means well. He doesn't have the presence, elan and savoir faire of a complete official like yourself, but his personal growth in the last little while has been amazing (even if he still has a potty mouth).

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Viagara for everybody!!!!!


Well, maybe not Juulie.....

I won't swallow it!! But there might come a day when I would have a use for it!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rainmaker
[/B]

I won't swallow it!! But there might come a day when I would have a use for it!

[/B][/QUOTE]Ummmmm......


Nope, not gonna do it. Much as I'd like to. If I did, this thread would be gone in a heartbeat. And I really,really wanna hear MN's answer.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by mnref14
Ain't hypocrisy a Son of a Gun????? You've got a problem with me using blanket statements,

No junior, I don't have any problem with you at all. I just said you're annoying and you whine like a little girl.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

I won't swallow it!! But there might come a day when I would have a use for it!

[/B]

Ummmmm......


Nope, not gonna do it. Much as I'd like to. If I did, this thread would be gone in a heartbeat. And I really,really wanna hear MN's answer. [/B][/QUOTE]

You get lotsa points for your self-control!

[ref18]

For all those with the questions, this is only counting this year.

Most of it is rec league, middle school, and rep teams.

I believe that they are a tool, that aren't used nearly as often as they should. In my experience i find that if i let the coach get out of control, the kids tend to follow.

At a camp, an evaluator put it this way, "If you go home regretting not giving a T, then you should've given it."

This season i have no regrets.

I have never T'd up two coaches in the same game, after the first one, they tend to change their ways, and behave.