I don't T coaches?!

[footlocker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
BTW, I didn't T a HS coach the entire year.

Is this bragging? Well, good for you fancy pants. I'm tired of this mentality. And I know that many more officials have made this sad statement. BktBallRef, I have read your posts and know that you provide insight and intelligence (so I’m sorry if you feel I am picking on you, but this is directed towards many).

This statement is elitist. Is this some way of saying that any official that Ts a coach has already let the game get out of control? Therefore, a technical foul on a coach is a direct reflection of the quality of the official? Come on.

“Hey guys, I haven’t called a travel all year! When I show up everybody knows not to try that with me.” It’s ridiculous. Referees that have this mentality or make it an objective to go the entire year without T’ing a coach often let themselves get abused because of this philosophy. Walking onto the floor knowing or believing that an official should not call a T on a coach because it is a reflection on him is not very bright. Why? Because when the coach earns it, the ref will be fighting giving it because it would go against his basic philosophy.

Coaches earn Ts. We have to be willing to give them out when the situation arises. I gave out two Ts this year. None last year. Was I a better official then? No. However, two times this year a coach crossed the line and I took care of business. End of story.

[cmckenna]

Perhaps all they are trying to say is that they had good game management all year and that no situations arose that warranted a T.

You know that it is possible to get along with coaches and that you don't have to go around T'ing them up all the time.

I didn't read that he does not ever give any out, just that there were no situations for his this year that warranted any....

[wizard]

I'm sure BktBallRef can speak for himself, but I didn't read this as bragging. If you read this in the context that it was, it was just a response to the statement by mnref14 that officials are in too big of a hurry to drop the ball on teams coming late out of timeouts.

As stated by mnref14 "I have never seen a game helped along by an official putting a ball down after a timeout. I can't imagine any coach saying after a game, thanks for putting the ball down after the TO - it made the game go a lot better. Officials too often are trying to teach somebody a lesson with this mechanic."

Sounds like you're barking up the wrong tree.

[zebraman]

A "T" is a tool in our bag to use if we feel we need it to control a game. If we can use other tools to prevent getting to that point, that's good preventative officiating and we're better off.

I give less T's than I used to... yet I expect better behavior from coaches than I did in previous years. My expectation of sportsmanship is higher than it used to be yet I haven't given a T in about a year-and-a-half.

When I started, I just reffed the game between the lines and didn't notice signs of frustration or see when a "situation" was developing. I'm a lot better at game management now and I think I head things off before they get to critical mass.

That doesn't mean that I won't give any T's next year.. part of it is luck too. I had real good partners this year and also most of the coaches have seen me many times before and know my expectations now.

We have a couple refs who go looking for T's and lead our association in technicals every year. If they went on the court with a different attitude, they might only have to give one once in a while. They create an adversarial relationship which causes them many problems. I have a whole different pregame when I ref with them... I tell them to just ref between the lines and I'll handle the game management. So far that has worked... knock on wood.

From reading Tony's posts over a long time, I would surmise that he's a pretty good game manager and heads things off before they get bad. I would also surmise that he sure isn't afraid to give a T when needed.

Z

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by footlocker

Is this bragging? Well, good for you fancy pants. I'm tired of this mentality. And I know that many more officials have made this sad statement. BktBallRef, I have read your posts and know that you provide insight and intelligence (so I’m sorry if you feel I am picking on you, but this is directed towards many).

This statement is elitist. Is this some way of saying that any official that Ts a coach has already let the game get out of control? Therefore, a technical foul on a coach is a direct reflection of the quality of the official? Come on.

“Hey guys, I haven’t called a travel all year! When I show up everybody knows not to try that with me.” It’s ridiculous. Referees that have this mentality or make it an objective to go the entire year without T’ing a coach often let themselves get abused because of this philosophy. Walking onto the floor knowing or believing that an official should not call a T on a coach because it is a reflection on him is not very bright. Why? Because when the coach earns it, the ref will be fighting giving it because it would go against his basic philosophy.

Coaches earn Ts. We have to be willing to give them out when the situation arises. I gave out two Ts this year. None last year. Was I a better official then? No. However, two times this year a coach crossed the line and I took care of business. End of story.

Perhaps you should put that quote in context,before you attack.

My partner and I never T'd a coach all season either,and I absolutely don't have a "let's not T a coach philosophy." We did not have a coach that earned it,we had a few,"That's enough,coach," but no coach went over the line.

My partner and I work hard on game management,we try to be approachable and don't have a problem with questions.This does not mean we won't T if it is needed,but we should not have to handle EVERY situation with a T,or a threat of a T.

[Rich]

Originally posted by cmckenna
Perhaps all they are trying to say is that they had good game management all year and that no situations arose that warranted a T.

This is just as bad. Are you insinuating that giving a T is a sign that you don't have good game management skills?

[Hawks Coach]

footlocker
If you want to rip somebody, at least have the decency to read what he said in full, as well as the initial post to which he was responding. The initial post lumped those who are putting the ball on the floor with those who are quick to T, i.e., generally on their high horse and have no game managment skills. What Tony was saying is that he will put the ball on the floor if the situation warrants, but, by the way, don't lump him in with the "can't manage a game, quick to T" type A's that you are citing because he hasn't Td any coaches this year.

ANd i believe that if he needed to T a coach he would. It is worht bragging about not having called a T on a coach, and it is far different than saying he hasn't called a traveling violation. One would indicate tha he manages games well, the other would indicate that he refuses to enforce the traveling rule (or had an amazing season of perfectly played games!)

[cmckenna]

Uh oh... not the game management stuff again...

Let me rephrase my statement...

Perhaps all they are trying to say is that they had good GAMES all year and that no situations arose that warranted a T.

[mnref14]

He was just adding to his point.

BlindZebra, I like your mentality and explanation of your philosophy. Honestly, it may happen that you have to T 8 coaches in a season; but too many officials enjoy being combatitive like an MLB umpire. As for me, I prefer to keep the lines of communication open; if a coach can't handle that - then we'll have a problem.

I had a coach(who lost by 20 to a superior team) come into our lockerroom just before my partner and I left one night this year. He said, "thanks a lot for being willing to talk to us." He went on to say that it was one of the 1st times all year someone would answer a question or discuss anything with him and his staff. His assistant then chimed in that a lot of times they get the "wave off," from officials. Now, whether it was deserved or not - this coach has in his mind that officials are unwilling to communicate with him and on many cases dismissive - what good does that do anyone?

[cmckenna]

My partner and I work hard on game management

I would surmise that he's a pretty good game manager

One would indicate tha he manages games well

BTW Rich... looks like I was not the only one using the game management statement...

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

This is just as bad. Are you insinuating that giving a T is a sign that you don't have good game management skills?

There is an "and" in that quote from cmckenna, and it probably should be italicized. If you have no game management skills, you will hand out some unnecessary Ts. If you have good game management skills, you may still be forced to T if coaches cross the line despite your best efforts. It is the presence of good game management skills coupled with no serious situations arising that result in zero Ts. I can't see taking offense at that concept.

Lots of Ts, you probably have some game management issues. 1 or 2 are hardly different than zero in my book, just that in some cases, all the game management skills in the world won't keep a coach from crossing a line. But if you are doing a good job and not too quick on the trigger, the number of Ts will probably be pretty small.

[Adam]

I have never T'd a coach. Of course, that probably says more about the fact that I've really only had about 2 "full" seasons in my roughly 7 years of officiating.
I do vividly recall one situation where I should have T'd a coach but never pulled the trigger.
I always listen to questions (assuming it's a question), but not to officiating from the bench. I ignore the coaches who ask for three seconds, traveling on a throw in, reaches and over the backs. I will answer a coach when he asks why I called his kid for traveling on a failed jump stop or if he asks where the contact was on a shot attempt.
Communication isn't just for our partners. I've noticed coaches are far more willing to stop officiating if I'm willing to give a quick explanation of a call.

[BktBallRef]

footlocker, I’m sorry if you feel I am picking on you, but your post is bull$hit. Perhaps you should read the ENTIRE post, rather than taking one statement out of context.

I wasn't bragging about not having T'd a coach this year, nor am I an elitist. I simply correlated my stand based on two separate issues that mnref chose to group together.

He wrote, "I have never seen a game helped along by an official putting a ball down after a timeout. He also wrote, "I just think a lot of us are too quick to become adversarial with coaches, and it is just not necessary. If you find yourself T'ing coaches left and right, the problem may be you." In short, he said that officials who put the ball on the floor and who T up coaches are bad officials.

I, myself do place the ball on the floor from time to time. But I haven't T'ed a coach this year because I didn't have one who "crossed the line." So, where does that put me in mnref's hierarchy of officating?

I don't having a problem throwing a T when needed. But I don't usually brag about it when I do and I haven't previously disclosed that I didn't call one this year.

Next time, read the whole post and comprehend.

__________________________________________________

PS - After posting, I then went back and read what others posted. I'm glad to see my comments in the other thread were understood by everyone else. Thank you gentlemen.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Mar 9th, 2004 at 05:22 PM]

[Forksref]

I gave 2 T's in 42 games this year. And they were after clear warnings to the coach: "That's enough coach."

I give out fewer than in years past, but some situations warrant it.

When I was coaching, a T would get me back to coaching and stop officiating. That's a good thing.

Next year, maybe no T's. Who knows? But it's nothing to brag about, either way.

[footlocker]

Ok, here is the problem. If I wanted to continue the thoughts about the old thread (game management revisited) I would have just added a reply.

The fact is, I wanted to post a new thread because I am introducing a new thought. I read your entire post BktBallRef. I get your point. At first, I did not make the correlation that you inferred. My apologies. I intended on posting this new thread to make a point about what officials say.

As I stated, this statement has been made before on this site and, I have heard it spoken by officials in my association. When I hear this, many people (maybe not you BktBallRef) are bragging. Clear and simple. There are three different philosophies about T’ing coaches.

1. The ref that goes looking for the coach. “too many officials enjoy being combatitive” - mnref14 (this is out of context too.)
2. The ref that avoids calling the T because they believe that this negatively reflects their skills.
3. The ref that works hard on game management and communication with the coaches but will not allow a coach to go over the line. This official will take care of business when needed

In my humble opinion, cases 1 and 2 are equally dangerous. It should simply be our job to be objective. I don’t appreciate refs bragging about T’ing coaches, nor do I like hearing “I haven’t given a T all year.”

The reason I did not quote the whole post is because I did not want the point to be about “putting the ball down.” You can read what you want to into this post but it is simple- cases 1 & 2 are bad. Case 3 is a hard working official with a healthy understanding of the coaching/technical situation.

Some of you get it. Thanks.