I don't T coaches?!

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by footlocker
1. The ref that goes looking for the coach. “too many officials enjoy being combatitive” - mnref14 (this is out of context too.)
2. The ref that avoids calling the T because they believe that this negatively reflects their skills.
3. The ref that works hard on game management and communication with the coaches but will not allow a coach to go over the line. This official will take care of business when needed.

Here's the problem: You're being just as one-sided in your post as mnref14 was in his post.

According to him, if you put the ball on the floor, you're a poor game manager.

According to you, if you say, "I didn't T a HS coach the entire year," you're not taking care of business.

Neither of you may like either of these situations but there's nothing wrong with either. Can good game managers put the ball on the floor? Sure they can. Can a poor game manager put the ball on the floor? Of course. But that doesn't mean that everyone who does it is guilty of poor game management. Can a good game manger call a T on a coach? Damn skippy he can. Can a good game manager avoid a T? Yes. But just because a person says, "I didn't T a HS coach the entire year," it doesn't mean that person doesn't qualify for category #3.

I'm done.

[FHSUref]

No T's in 54 varsity games this year. I can say that because no coach ever stepped over the line after it was drawn. Once the line is drawn and the coach steps over it, then you need to asses the T.

Of course, I will listen to a coach if he/she is upset about a previous call or wants an explanation. Once an explanation is given or they vent (for lack of a better word), I let them know that we will continue to do our best and promote the contest with as little interference as possible. If they continue to harp on you, abuse you, complain about a previous situation etc..., in my book or philosophy, that will warrant a T (EVERY SITUATION IS DIFFERENT).

PLEASE LET ME STRESS, that this is solely how I do it, you may agree or disagree or agree to disagree but I have not had any problems doing it like this nor have I been abused by an upset coach.

[rainmaker]

Threw one T to a coach this year. (And a couple or three more to players.) Did the coach earn it? You'd better believe it. My game management skills this year have been my best ever, but this guy was just plain out of line. I've also put the ball down twice or three times this year. Only once in all the past four years put together. Same improvement in game management skills. Just the way the cookie crumbles.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Here's the problem: You're being just as one-sided in your post as mnref14 was in his post.

According to him, if you put the ball on the floor, you're a poor game manager.

According to you, if you say, "I didn't T a HS coach the entire year," you're not taking care of business.

Neither of you may like either of these situations but there's nothing wrong with either. Can good game managers put the ball on the floor? Sure they can. Can a poor game manager put the ball on the floor? Of course. But that doesn't mean that everyone who does it is guilty of poor game management. Can a good game manger call a T on a coach? Damn skippy he can. Can a good game manager avoid a T? Yes. But just because a person says, "I didn't T a HS coach the entire year," it doesn't mean that person doesn't qualify for category #3.

I'm done.

OK, let me get this straight. This season I tossed a coach in my very first HS game...I guess that puts me in category 1...? But I try not to put the ball on the floor...which category is that again??? Damn, this is so confusing!!!

I'm so glad that spring is around the corner and we'll be seeing Robins again.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
OK, let me get this straight. This season I tossed a coach in my very first HS game...I guess that puts me in category 1...? But I try not to put the ball on the floor...which category is that again??? Damn, this is so confusing!!!

Beats the helloutta me! I didn't know there were categories until I read this post!

I'm so glad that spring is around the corner and we'll be seeing Robins again.

You mean Turds?

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by footlocker
Some of you get it. Thanks.

You make a totally off-base post, we all respond to it recognizing the point that Tony was making and telling you that you are off base. At the same time, our posts indicate that most of us recognize the distinctions that you want to make, with many also not wishing to make everything black and white.

The difference is that you come off as absolutist in your posts, the rest of us seem to be more willing to recognize that many different things arise during the course of a season. You can't just look at one indicator (or one game, or one anything) and decide what type of ref a person is. I am not big into the you are either this or you are that treatment of individuals and situations - life is muc more complicated than that. If you want to simplify, then maybe I can put you into a category

[footlocker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Here's the problem: You're being just as one-sided in your post as mnref14 was in his post.

According to him, if you put the ball on the floor, you're a poor game manager.

According to you, if you say, "I didn't T a HS coach the entire year," you're not taking care of business.

Neither of you may like either of these situations but there's nothing wrong with either. Can good game managers put the ball on the floor? Sure they can. Can a poor game manager put the ball on the floor? Of course. But that doesn't mean that everyone who does it is guilty of poor game management. Can a good game manger call a T on a coach? Damn skippy he can. Can a good game manager avoid a T? Yes. But just because a person says, "I didn't T a HS coach the entire year," it doesn't mean that person doesn't qualify for category #3.

I'm done.

Well, if you just want to argue fine. You win. I already posted an apology for misunderstanding your post. I am not taking the fact that a person threw a T or not and placing them in a category. I am also not going to bother explaining this. Some officials just choose to get charged up about a post/poster and fly into attack mode.

You read my initial post of this thread. Took it a way which was not intended (largely my fault, due to my misunderstanding of Tony's original post.) I thought I cleared that up in my second post. If you choose to understand that, fine. If not, fine.

My point is about preconceived ideas about how an official approaches a game with regards to coaches and technicals. If you believe that, as an official, you should exercise good game management, resolve potential conflicts with coaches before a situation arises, work hard to maintain the right rapport with the coaches, and are willing to assess the T when and if the situation warrants- then whether you like it or not, you agree with me.

If you think that a T on a coach is a negative thing, which you will avoid at all costs, or that coaches deserve them and you're just the guy to dish them out, then we disagree on philosophy here (whether you like it or not).

If you can't get passed my mistake in understanding Tony's original post on the other thread, then I will wonder about your ability to remain objective throughout the course of a game, season, career.

[blindzebra]

Why not jump threads with,"Something BktBallRef said made me think," instead of,"Was that bragging mister fancy pants?"

You attacked,over generalized,then accused others of attacking your post.

As for your original idea,I'm sure there are some officials
that do go out of their way to avoid T's.I've seen new officials afraid of pulling the trigger,and I've seen others whacking coaches left in right.If you work hard with experience you learn to handle things better and not sway over to one side or the other.

I've learned over the years that lending an ear,the RIGHT
words,and...if necessary...a stop sign SOMETIMES you can get through a season without nailing a coach.

[Rich]

Originally posted by footlocker
It should simply be our job to be objective. I don’t appreciate refs bragging about T’ing coaches, nor do I like hearing “I haven’t given a T all year.”

I apologize if I snipped overly, but i wanted to highlight this sentence.

I am a baseball umpire this time of the season, now that my hoops schedule is over. Last night we had our state rules meeting and then went to a local pub where we had beers and told war stories. All of us at the table are high school and college umpires. The most fun we had was talking about some of the outrageous situations and ejections we've had in the past.

Sometimes this type of talk is just talk. We aren't bragging about ejecting people, but sometimes it happens. It's fun to talk about after the fact sometimes because occasionally you learn something from it and it's fun telling other umpires how outrageous situations and coaches can be.

If I was making the statement how I hadn't ejected anyone all season, it wouldn't be bragging -- it would be pure shock.

--Rich

[ref18]

I've T'd up 19 coaches, and ejected 2 this year. I think that's a pretty good ratio for 200 games, and i'm damn proud of every one of them.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by ref18
I've T'd up 19 coaches, and ejected 2 this year. I think that's a pretty good ratio for 200 games, and i'm damn proud of every one of them.

Are you notching your whistle?LOL

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by ref18
I've T'd up 19 coaches, and ejected 2 this year. I think that's a pretty good ratio for 200 games, and i'm damn proud of every one of them.

Based on my experience, seems a pretty high ratio. I don't see Ts in 10% of the games, and I have seen one ejection (and know of two others that occurred in games I missed ). what level was this at?!

[ref18]

Originally posted by blindzebra

Are you notching your whistle?LOL [/B]

That's a good idea, but i'd run out of space

I keep a record in my day planner of what games involved a T or flagerant foul, just incase i get a complaint about it, and have to write a report. Thankfully, i haven't had any complaints yet.

[Edited by ref18 on Mar 10th, 2004 at 08:28 PM]

[Mark Dexter]

I keep track - in case there is a problem later, and (more importantly) so I can track my game management skills. I can happily say that I've gone from an average of 1 T/game in the past two seasons to 1 T every 3 games this year. Recording them has helped to realize when they help the game, and when they're excessive - something that helped me tonight to not inflame a team by calling a T (that probably should have been called) right at the end of a championship game.

[dhodges007]

Foot,

I agree with you that there are officials out there who have that philosophy, however, i have been on this board for years and the vast majority of officials here don't feel that way. (I'm almost willing to bet that all of us here don't feel that way.)