Whistle Dead Ball

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rich1

The ball is dead when you recognize the time out not when you blow the whistle. If a coach yells time out and you take a moment to verify its a legitimate request (head coach, correct team, player control) would you award a shot that was launched just before you blew the whistle?

6-7 The ball becomes dead when: Art 5... An official's whistle is blown.

Nothing else in there I can see about TOs

If true, the ball becomes dead on the whistle -- not "when you recognize the TO" (with exceptions for try, etc)

[ilyazhito]

If a try is in the air, even if the timeout was recognized, then the whistle is meaningless. The ball will not become dead until the try ends, so possession will be undetermined until the try either scores (possession awarded to the non-scoring team with the right to run the endline) or not (possession awarded based on the AP arrow). Timing here is key.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich1

... the referee's whistle causes the ball to become dead.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... sounding one's whistle to grant a requested timeout during a live ball ...

I will continue to dance with the girl that I brung to the high school dance because I'm not granting if the ball has been released on a try, thus no exceptions.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Do I get a prize?

[Raymond]

Rule 5-5

Art. 1. The ball shall become dead or remain dead when:

f. An official blows the whistle and signals when a foul is committed by a shooter’s teammate before the ball is released for a try for goal; and

g. An official blows the whistle when any floor violation (Rules 9-3 through 9-14) occurs, there is basket interference or goaltending (Rule 9-15) or there is a free-throw violation by the free-thrower’s team (Rule 9-1).


I knew the first one. I'm guessing everyone thinks the ball is already dead for the second

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Rule 5-5-1-G: The ball shall become dead or remain dead when: An official blows the whistle when any floor violation (Rules 9-3 through 9-14) occurs, there is basket interference or goaltending (Rule 9-15) or there is a free-throw violation by the free-thrower’s team (Rule 9-1).

Originally Posted by Raymond

I'm guessing everyone thinks the ball is already dead ...

I did.

6-7-9: The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when: A violation, as in 9-2 through 13, occurs (exception for opponent leaving court for unauthorized reason, or swinging elbows excessively).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Rule 5-5

Art. 1. The ball shall become dead or remain dead when:

f. An official blows the whistle and signals when a foul is committed by a shooter’s teammate before the ball is released for a try for goal; and

g. An official blows the whistle when any floor violation (Rules 9-3 through 9-14) occurs, there is basket interference or goaltending (Rule 9-15) or there is a free-throw violation by the free-thrower’s team (Rule 9-1).


I knew the first one. I'm guessing everyone thinks the ball is already dead for the second

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I think that's supposed to be 6-5-1, from NCAAM rules book (NCAAW is the same, but the "f" and "g" might be different.

Note that NCAAW fundamentals do NOT have the "the whistle rarely causes the ball to become dead" clause; NCAAM do not seem to have the fundamentals listed.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think that's supposed to be 6-5-1, from NCAAM rules book ...

So Raymond's post is an NCAA citation?

My bad, I should realize that the Forum has become more college-centric over the years.

I just figured that my two-year-old NFHS rulebook on my hard drive was outdated and I was too lazy to walk across the house to get my up-to-date print rulebook.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think that's supposed to be 6-5-1, from NCAAM rules book (NCAAW is the same, but the "f" and "g" might be different.



...

You are correct.

Also from Rule 6.

Section 6. Ball Does Not Become Dead Art. 1. A live ball shall not become dead until the try in flight ends when:
a. An official’s whistle is blown;
b. Time expires for a half or extra period; or
c. A foul occurs.

Art. 2. A live ball shall not become dead when a foul is committed by an opponent of a player who starts a try for goal before a foul occurs, provided that time does not expire before the ball is in flight.

Art. 3. A live ball shall not become dead when the ball is in flight on a try for field goal or during a free throw when an opponent swings an arm(s) or elbow(s) excessively without making contact.

Art. 4. While a free throw is in flight, the ball shall not become dead when:
a. An official blows the whistle; or
b. A foul occurs.


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[Raymond]

11-2-1.c.1 d. Determine the correct time to be placed back on the game clock when the referee blows the whistle, signals for the game clock to be stopped, and in the official's judgment, time has elapsed before the game clock stopped. On an out of bounds violation, the official shall determine the elapsed time before the game clock stopped from the time the ball actually hit out-of-bounds.

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[Raymond]

A.R. 313. As the official calls a five-second closely guarded violation, the official sounds the whistle and gives the signal to stop the game clock. The game clock was stopped, however, in the official’s judgment, time elapsed after the signal to stop the clock.

RULING: The official is permitted to go to the official courtside monitor to determine if a timer’s mistake has been committed. When it is determined that time did elapse, the official is permitted to correct the time. (Rule 11-2.1.c.1.c)

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