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Old Tue Oct 06, 2015, 03:45pm
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Live ball, dead ball, granting time outs

Rule 6.2.b doesnt totally explain "at the disposal of"

6.7.art 1. Says its dead after a goal is made,

So if a basket or final free throw is made by team A, at what point can team A still call a timeout?

After the ball goes through, the ball is dead, when is it live?

1. Ball bouncing and before team B touches the ball inbounds, prior to going oob to make a throw in??

2. Ball picked up by team B, but before going oob to make a throw in??


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Old Tue Oct 06, 2015, 03:54pm
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Welcome to the forum first of all.

The ball can only be at the disposal of the team that is entitled to do a throw-in. So when the ball is at the disposal of that team (the team that did not score) then only the team that is making the throw-in can request a timeout. Before then the ball is dead and anyone an request a timeout. And when the ball is at the disposal of the throw-in team, the ball is live. That time does not mean they have to even have the ball, but have had the opportunity to pick up the ball and begin a throw in. Or when the official starts their count which is supposed to start simultaneously with when the ball is at the disposal of the throw-in team.

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Old Tue Oct 06, 2015, 05:16pm
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Circular Reasoning ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... Or when the official starts their count which is supposed to start simultaneously with when the ball is at the disposal of the throw-in team.
Circular reasoning. It works, but it's still circular reasoning.

When do we start a count? When the ball's at the disposal of the player.

When the ball at the disposal of the player? When we start a count.

Good explanation (below):

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
The ball can only be at the disposal of the team that is entitled to do a throw-in. So when the ball is at the disposal of that team (the team that did not score) then only the team that is making the throw-in can request a timeout. Before then the ball is dead and anyone an request a timeout. And when the ball is at the disposal of the throw-in team, the ball is live. That time does not mean they have to even have the ball, but have had the opportunity to pick up the ball and begin a throw in.
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Old Tue Oct 06, 2015, 08:48pm
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Indeed welcome to the forum. If you're new and preparing for your first rules exam, I think you'll find this forum to be a great study aide.

IRT your question, I would note that this is why most officials agree that Rule 4 (Definitions) is the bedrock for all other rules understanding.

See Rule 4-4-7d: A ball is at the disposal of a player when it is:
.....d. Available to a player after a goal AND (my emphasis) the official begins the throw-in count.

What is "available" is up to the new trail's judgment. Generally accepted practice is that, if the non-scoring team is slow to react after the score, we allow them a little time. If they pick up the ball, start counting. If they don't, and the ball is available and they're just sluggish, start counting only when it gets to the point of ridiculous*. Of course if the ball gets stuck under a bleacher or lost down a hallway, blow the clock dead in order to resolve that.

(* Maybe a little sooner at the end of a close game where the non-scoring team may intentionally be trying to waste time.)

Now, you asked about disposal WRT granting time outs. Most coaches who want to call time out after a score know that they have to do this immediately. Understand game situations and be ready for this. What I say next is unwritten but solid advice: if said coach is asking for the time out immediately after the score, but the non-scoring team is already gathering the ball and taking it out by the time you confirm who is calling the time-out and/or put air in the whistle, grant the time out. In other words, if the intent to call the time out while the ball was dead is clear, give that coach/player the benefit of the doubt.
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Old Wed Oct 07, 2015, 07:49am
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A non-rules specific guideline:

When B is holding the ball OOB or could reasonably be expected to be holding the ball OOB (in the case where B "delays" doing so).

And, rules are with dashes (1-2-3) and cases are with dots (1.2.3). (This standard is right in the forward of the case book)
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Old Wed Oct 07, 2015, 11:09am
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[
What I say next is unwritten but solid advice: if said coach is asking for the time out immediately after the score, but the non-scoring team is already gathering the ball and taking it out by the time you confirm who is calling the time-out and/or put air in the whistle, grant the time out. In other words, if the intent to call the time out while the ball was dead is clear, give that coach/player the benefit of the doubt.[/QUOTE]

*I like this good use of discerning judgement.
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