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  #76 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 15, 2019, 11:49am
Courageous When Prudent
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Raymond, re-read post #70. I may not always know what is happening, but I can pickup my secondary defenders and identify their actions and legal/illegal position. I make B/C decisions based on their location (irrelevant for NFHS) and legality. This is why block/charge plays are simple for me (not necessarily easy, because there are moving bodies at high speeds).
Again, you have a limited amount of experience. There are going to be times where you pick up plays late or are looking in the wrong place then all of a sudden there is a crash in your primary. You live in a Black & White world. Officiating has a lot of grey areas and unexpected things that happen. Believe it or not, most officials judge their B/C calls on the legality of the defenders, you're not opening up some new world to the rest of us. You need to listen more and curtail some of the lectures and history lessons you dispense to us.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 15, 2019, 11:51am
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Originally Posted by LRZ View Post
Move over, Rich, make room for me.
I have a glorious set of clutching pearls one can borrow.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 15, 2019, 11:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Again, you have a limited amount of experience. There are going to be times where you pick up plays late or are looking in the wrong place then all of a sudden there is a crash in your primary. You live in a Black & White world. Officiating has a lot of grey areas and unexpected things that happen. Believe it or not, most officials judge their B/C calls on the legality of the defenders, you're not opening up some new world to the rest of us. You need to listen more and curtail some of the lectures and history lessons you dispense to us.

Stay in your lane bro!

(not directed at you Raymond, just quoting my new favorite commercial and telling ilyazhito to listen more, talk less)
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 15, 2019, 12:22pm
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I am merely a HS official. I have a certain mentality when I work a game.

I own my primary and realize I can't go reaching out of it in an effort to save the world. If I do that, I might get a call right, but I'm losing ownership of my primary. And I'm just as likely to get a call wrong.

Frankly, this is easiest to do when I don't know the other officials well. We work a lot of games in crews and when I work with my regular guys, we are really comfortable grabbing something we think a partner missed and the lines on the floor get, unfortunately, blurred.

But when I'm with relative strangers, I think to myself -- I want them to think of me as a good partner. And I only reach when I know I have to and have an open look at what I'm reaching for. Stay in my damned primary.

There are times when all eyes have to be on the ball. Last possession, player takes it to the rack or elevates for a winning jump shot. There's nothing else that matters there. If there's contact from the backside or something the primary official CAN'T see, then we have to come and get it. Otherwise? It's just one call in a 36 minute game and I'm not injecting a whole bunch of nonsense into a game just so we MAYBE get the call right on the floor.

A lot of these "reaching" scenarios involve one official (not primary) substituting his judgment for another's (primary). That's just wrong, completely wrong.
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 15, 2019, 06:12pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Bottom line, I want to beat the tape. That is it. I do not care about much else. And unless you are working a TV game with multiple angles, it is harder to beat the tape. I called a play kind of out of my area on Saturday, it was the only call out of my area they entire game. It did not save the game. It just was an open look and gave my partners every opportunity to see it. But I was not doing that again. The call did not save the world or the game. And if I passed on the play, no one would have said anything but maybe the shooter (he is on the video saying he got hit on the arm).

I just think there are plays we are going to miss and I am not putting my bread and butter on calls outside of my primary when I respect the partners I am working with.

Peace
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 15, 2019, 06:17pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Bottom line, I want to beat the tape. That is it. I do not care about much else. And unless you are working a TV game with multiple angles, it is harder to beat the tape. I called a play kind of out of my area on Saturday, it was the only call out of my area they entire game. It did not save the game. It just was an open look and gave my partners every opportunity to see it. But I was not doing that again. The call did not save the world or the game. And if I passed on the play, no one would have said anything but maybe the shooter (he is on the video saying he got hit on the arm).

I just think there are plays we are going to miss and I am not putting my bread and butter on calls outside of my primary when I respect the partners I am working with.

Peace
I learned my lesson on "beat the tape" as a small college deep wing in football. I called DPI that was pretty obvious to me in my position and the observer simply told me it wasn't a strong flag based on one crappy angle from a-top the press box.

Lesson learned. At that level, it better be a gigantic elephant or you simply don't hit it.

Same thing in a HS game. It had better show up on the crappy tape or I'm not coming all the way across the court while singing the Mighty Mouse theme.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 15, 2019, 06:21pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I learned my lesson on "beat the tape" as a small college deep wing in football. I called DPI that was pretty obvious to me in my position and the observer simply told me it wasn't a strong flag based on one crappy angle from a-top the press box.

Lesson learned. At that level, it better be a gigantic elephant or you simply don't hit it.

Same thing in a HS game. It had better show up on the crappy tape or I'm not coming all the way across the court while singing the Mighty Mouse theme.
Football videos are not very good based on the camera person and the quality of the angles. So when I say beat the tape, if there is something that is critical, it better at least shown up on video on some level. Otherwise, the supervisor can suggest you did not get it right. I am just saying, do not give them a reason. And as a general rule, it keeps you out of trouble. Football are worse than basketball in that respect. Even on TV, there is usually one angle that settles the situation. Not the case so much in basketball games.

Peace
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 15, 2019, 08:09pm
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Mighty Mouse Is On The Way ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
... while singing the Mighty Mouse theme.
For you young'uns, it's, "Here I come to save the day".

https://youtu.be/X78i13q-atk
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Jan 15, 2019 at 08:12pm.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 19, 2019, 09:23am
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Nothing ticks me off more then my partner calling a foul or violation in my area. In high school games if you pull this crap the first time you get a loook, the second you a head shake and the third we are going to have a conversation you will not like at halftime or after the game. I still do youth games and that is a train wreck of officials who call outside their area. I had a partner in lead position call travel at half court one time, I reversed the call and told him to stay the F out of my area before I get mad. I don’t call other areas for 2 reasons, it’s your job and your area and second it looks bad when
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 19, 2019, 10:42am
Courageous When Prudent
 
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What does "a conversation you will not like" look like?

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  #86 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 19, 2019, 10:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
What does "a conversation you will not like" look like?

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The thought has me shaking in my boots.


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  #87 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 19, 2019, 11:39am
LRZ LRZ is offline
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"the second you [get] a head shake....it looks bad when...."

Sounds inconsistent, no? It look bad when one official shakes his/her head at a partner's call.
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 19, 2019, 12:02pm
CJP CJP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randa16 View Post
I reversed the call and told him to stay the F out of my area before I get mad.
You reversed your partners call? Sounds suspicious.
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 19, 2019, 03:06pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
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Everybody In The Gym ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randa16 View Post
Nothing ticks me off more then my partner calling a foul or violation in my area.
You've never been unexpectedly straightlined?

Never missed one call in your primary (maybe an illegal screen) because there was a lot of physical action going on in another part of your primary?

Never missed a slight touch before a pass or shot heads out of bounds on your line?

And these happen when absolutely everybody in the gym except you sees the foul, or violation?

And if these happen, you don't ever accept, or even want, unsolicited help?

Never? Ever? Not even once a season?
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 19, 2019, 04:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
You've never been unexpectedly straightlined?

Never missed one call in your primary (maybe an illegal screen) because there was a lot of physical action going on in another part of your primary?

Never missed a slight touch before a pass or shot heads out of bounds on your line?

And these happen when absolutely everybody in the gym except you sees the foul, or violation?

And if these happen, you don't ever accept, or even want, unsolicited help?

Never? Ever? Not even once a season?
LOL. True, officiating is angles, you can't have a problem when straightlined and someone else comes and gets it right, or you shouldn't be officiating bball.
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