Reaching out of your area

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

As long as you do Youth ball you will get "train wreck" partners. And any of those partners old enough to have teenagers of their own aren't going to sit around the locker room (or whatever changing area you have) while you berate them for calling in your area.

You will be lucky if they even care at all what you have to say at that level. They might go right back to what they are doing and might even call more in your area.

Peace

[ilyazhito]

I think I may have had a partner just like that yesterday at a CYO tournament. No pregame conference whatsoever, he would call in my primary area with primary-timed whistles, he would rarely switch except for shooting fouls. He said that he had been officiating for 13 years, including varsity games, but with his lack of communication with me on the court and improper mechanics, I find it hard to believe him.

[Rich]

I learned that rec ball was much more fun when I just let my partner do whatever he wanted and filled in the rest. Ball watcher? Fine. I'll watch everything else.

I'm not working rec ball to give a clinic. I'm there for the Benjamins.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I think I may have had a partner just like that yesterday at a CYO tournament. No pregame conference whatsoever, he would call in my primary area with primary-timed whistles, he would rarely switch except for shooting fouls. He said that he had been officiating for 13 years, including varsity games, but with his lack of communication with me on the court and improper mechanics, I find it hard to believe him.

Let me let you in on a little secret. No one cares about any other level other than varsity. Why? They do not have to. Those games are mostly for those that have a body.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let me let you in on a little secret. No one cares about any other level other than varsity.

While that may be true for CYO, AAU, recreation, and travel games here in my little corner of Connecticut, that's not true for board assigned interscholastic games of any level. If one is working a board assigned middle school, freshman, or junior varsity game, one is being evaluated, always by one's partner, but often by a member of our evaluation committee.

The new guys have to start somewhere, and the place to do it is in middle school, freshman, and junior varsity games. One is observed and evaluated in these games, and if one does well, one moves up to the big time.

If one does poorly in these low level games, one will never see the light of day in a varsity game.

Of course, when in Rome ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

... CYO tournament. No pregame conference whatsoever, he would call in my primary area with primary-timed whistles, he would rarely switch except for shooting fouls. He said that he had been officiating for 13 years, including varsity games, but with his lack of communication with me on the court and improper mechanics, I find it hard to believe him.

ilyazhito: Are you 100% certain that you understand the "culture" of the assigner and the officials in this league?

I worked a Catholic middle school league for over thirty years where the assigner had very high expectations for his officials in some areas of the game. Always be on time, dress in full uniform (no sweats, no sneakers), enforce all fashion rules, manage the game (control the coaches), always hustle up and down the court. However, some mechanics were more relaxed. Switch when convenient, bounce the ball across the lane on front court endline throwins, etc. Pregames were never held, but post games, especially when working with new guys, were very important for educational purposes.

More than two thirds of the officials working in this league for this assigner were high school varsity officials, and about a third were state tournament officials. Outstanding officials, high expectations, but relaxed mechanics. That was the culture of this league.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

While that may be true for CYO, AAU, recreation, and travel games here in my little corner of Connecticut, that's not true for board assigned interscholastic games of any level. If one is working a board assigned middle school, freshman, or junior varsity game, one is being evaluated, always by one's partner, but often by a member of our evaluation committee.

The new guys have to start somewhere, and the place to do it is in middle school, freshman, and junior varsity games. One is observed and evaluated in these games, and if one does well, one moves up to the big time.

If one does poorly in these low level games, one will never see the light of day in a varsity game.

As usual, you are missing my point. They hang championships up in the rafters or on the ceiling for those games? Do they get live TV coverage for those games on a regular basis? Is there a regular streaming live video of those games on the AAU website? Do they post scores of those games in the paper or on an independent media website?

And even with the point that new guys have to start somewhere, that does not mean everyone around it cares. This is often where veterans work games for the money or those that could never advance to a certain point. Most new guys I know have no desire to work rec ball the rest of their career. They work it to get noticed so they do not have to work that stuff much anymore. And there are veterans that do not do everything in those games because no one is going around taking games away because they will not switch. I do not think that is unique to any place. The reality is that if that was not the case, we would not hear all the stories about what some official did or how they tried to circumvent the rules or procedures because it was not important to them.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Most new guys I know have no desire to work rec ball the rest of their career.

There's a difference between "rec ball" and subvarsity interscholastic games assigned by one's high school assigner where one will be evaluated for promotion.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No one cares about any other level other than varsity.

Guys that want to be promoted "care" about doing a good job in their subvarsity interscholastic games assigned by our high school assigner.

Here in my little corner of Connecticut, "rec ball" is like the Wild West, anything goes, show up in sweats, sneakers, never switch, don't signal correctly, walk up the court, etc., but when one works subvarsity interscholastic games assigned by our high school assigner, one will be evaluated for promotion, so one should dot all the "i's" and cross all the "t's", or one might be working subvarsity games for one's entire career.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No one cares about any other level other than varsity.

If the official working the subvarsity interscholastic games doesn't care, their evaluating partner, or a member of our evaluation committee certainly cares.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

They hang championships up in the rafters or on the ceiling for those games? Do they post scores of those games in the paper or on an independent media website?

Middle school games? Yes (I've recently learned this in my new life as subvarsity official) and yes.

Rec games? No and yes.

Just like high school varsity games? Absolutely not. Not even close.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

There's a difference between "rec ball" and subvarsity interscholastic games assigned by one's high school assigner where one will be evaluated for promotion.

That all depends. Many subvarsity games are there just to fill a body. They can get almost anyone to do them and most of the time are not trying to make people travel all over the world to take them. At least hear the promotion part takes place mostly in the summer and being evaluated at a camp. Working a subvarsity game at best might only get an evaluation if the varsity officials decide to watch their game. Otherwise, there might be veterans that will do those games to pick up some extra money.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Guys that want to be promoted "care" about doing a good job in their subvarsity interscholastic games assigned by our high school assigner.

I have had administrators say, "We do not care, it is the sophomore game" to my face before it is over. They do not want to be there longer than they have to be in many cases. They are not trying to delay the main event because the sophomores are running late or causing a problem with the varsity contest start. As a football official, they will cancel the prelim game often if there is weather or some other kind of event. They can play those games anytime as opposed to a varsity game that likely has a smaller window. I had two sophomore games canceled this year because of incoming weather. The weather was not even there or they thought was coming into the area.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Here in my little corner of Connecticut, "rec ball" is like the Wild West, anything goes, show up in sweats, sneakers, never switch, don't signal correctly, walk up the court, etc., but when one works subvarsity interscholastic games assigned by our high school assigner, one will be evaluated for promotion, so one should dot all the "i's" and cross all the "t's", or one might be working subvarsity games for one's entire career.

And you are proving my point.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If the official working the subvarsity interscholastic games doesn't care, their evaluating partner, or a member of our evaluation committee certainly cares.

Well, that is a little different don't you think? Doesn't your state license or have a system of licensing officials? Big difference than an AAU type game that might not even be sanctioned by AAU itself and anyone with a pulse can do the local tournaments or assignments without any type of certification.

But do not miss the point. People are not trying to live at that level for more than other reasons than money. If someone has no desire to work a varsity game, you not giving them games because they did not switch on every foul? The way most sound around the country, you could not afford to be that strict.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

.. The way most sound around the country ...

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... here in my little corner of Connecticut ... Of course, when in Rome ...

I never spoke for any area other than mine.

Here in my little corner of Connecticut, there are only two things that gets one from the subvarsity list to the varsity list: in season observations and evaluations by a trained evaluation committee members, and in season partner evaluations. Period.

Varsity officials (unless one is on the trained evaluation committee) no longer evaluate junior varsity officials. Evaluations that count toward promotion are never done at summer camps.

Sure, fans, coaches, administrators, etc., don't "care" about subvarsity games, but officials that want to move up to varsity (granted, some don't want to move up) do "care", and those that observe and evaluate those officials do "care".

I certainly don't expect that to be the same in other areas, but that's the way it's done here. Here in my little corner of Connecticut, somebody does care about subvarsity interscholastic games assigned by our high school assigner.

[JRutledge]

Again, I was stating as a general rule, the caring factor of a varsity game is much higher by all involved than what happens in any other level of high school sports. There is nothing you are going to say that will change my stance on this when there are story after story of places across the country of officials not doing basic things they would have to do if they were working a varsity game. Let alone the things that coaches and administrations will not do at the lower levels as well. Heck, the people that work the table during a freshman game might be two high school kids that are on their phones more than they are watching the game. During a varsity game, the same table people are adults with years of experience and all the proper attire. All those uniform rules for example, we were told not to apply any of them for the most part by the IHSA itself. We do not use a lot of administrative rules because the goal is for the kids to play, not worry about if they have the proper uniform design or numbers in the book. Moving up is one thing, but when assignors are telling their staffs to not even worry about certain things because it is not a varsity game, that is all I need to know along with what people say does not happen when they work those games.

Peace

[ilyazhito]

For me personally, every game is relevant for promotion, even if nobody is watching. This is because every game is an opportunity to work on good habits, judgement, communication, signals, or something else. This way, when I have a game when a paid evaluator does show up (or a subvarsity game when the varsity officials evaluate me and send ratings to the people responsible for evaluations and promotions), I already have a good base to work with. From then on, it is more about refining the little things and fine-tuning decisions than any major overhaul of mechanics,etc. This was why I was annoyed about my "veteran" partner, although I did not say anything to him (I know it was CYO games, and he would have blown me off if I had expressed my concerns) about reaching. Working the subvarsity games I had yesterday, though, was night and day because I had varsity officials as my partners.

In Board 12, officials have at least a minimal pregame conference for rec games about covering one's own area, league rule differences, and frequency of switching. Same thing usually applies to rec games I have with other organizations. Of course, MS and high school games have a more structured pregame conference format.

I try my darnedest to not reach in another official's primary area on calls, but if there is a double whistle, I will yield to the primary official. Only if there is no call on an obvious play, and I have waited for the other official to make a call (after his normal decision-making window ends), then will I make a call out of my primary area. I may call a foul outside my primary under those criteria, but I would not call a violation (travel, illegal dribble, etc.) outside my primary area, unless it involves a closely guarded count on a player leaving my area of coverage.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... the caring factor of a varsity game is much higher by all involved than what happens in any other level of high school sports ... coaches and administrations will not do at the lower levels as well. Heck, the people that work the table during a freshman game might be two high school kids that are on their phones more than they are watching the game. During a varsity game, the same table people are adults with years of experience and all the proper attire. All those uniform rules for example ...

Agree. But somebody still cares in some parts of the country. It's the only way to advance here, including doing what our assigner and the evaluators expect.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. But somebody still cares in some parts of the country. It's the only way to advance here, including doing what our assigner and the evaluators expect.

Well, some people care about things while others will never care about. That is not the point of my comments. But if you think everyone cares about those games equally and they are not getting the same accolades for being there, that would be silly to think that way. And again evaluators are not who we are talking about and even they are evaluating those games for different reasons. Summer games here mean more for those purposes because there are too many games in different places to see everyone.

Peace