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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 09:30am
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Reaching for a T

There have been numerous threads about reaching into your partners area to grab a call. This one is along those lines but it concerns a T.

I started a thread about a timing error. We corrected it and moved on. But before we moved on the coach got into my partners drawers about how we handled it. At one point throwing his hands up in the air to let everyone know he was not happy about our decision.

Partner is at Division line. I'm lead. Small gym so benches are all the way to the division line. So coach is right on top of partner. I thought partner should have Teed him up. partner passed. Varsity officials coming in behind us thought like I did.

My question is would you have reached to reward this coach his T ?

I chose not to because it happened right in front of partner and figured he had his reasons for not throwing T. He had some ref jibberish for not throwing the T.

What say you ?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 09:38am
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I probably wouldn't have reached for this one if my partner was right there and I knew he saw and heard everything.

If the coach did this while my partner's back was turned, I'd get it.

I certainly wouldn't have given him a pass over a timing error like this that's easily correctible.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 09:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chess Ref
There have been numerous threads about reaching into your partners area to grab a call. This one is along those lines but it concerns a T.

I started a thread about a timing error. We corrected it and moved on. But before we moved on the coach got into my partners drawers about how we handled it. At one point throwing his hands up in the air to let everyone know he was not happy about our decision.

Partner is at Division line. I'm lead. Small gym so benches are all the way to the division line. So coach is right on top of partner. I thought partner should have Teed him up. partner passed. Varsity officials coming in behind us thought like I did.

My question is would you have reached to reward this coach his T ?


I chose not to because it happened right in front of partner and figured he had his reasons for not throwing T. He had some ref jibberish for not throwing the T.

What say you ?
Most likely I wouldn't. I had a situation where I'm opposite table and my partner is tableside. Coach is mad at me for a call/non call on his player. Coach is on the floor yelling at me. As I'm reaching into my pocket for my Tee my partner beat me to the punch reports and goes opposite the table for the throw in. I'm the good cop and i have to deal with the Coach who's p*ssed at me and not my partner. After a brief conversation we played on without further incident. This is one reason. Another your partner needs to learn how to fight his/her own battles.
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Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 10:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chess Ref
There have been numerous threads about reaching into your partners area to grab a call. This one is along those lines but it concerns a T.

I started a thread about a timing error. We corrected it and moved on. But before we moved on the coach got into my partners drawers about how we handled it. At one point throwing his hands up in the air to let everyone know he was not happy about our decision.

Partner is at Division line. I'm lead. Small gym so benches are all the way to the division line. So coach is right on top of partner. I thought partner should have Teed him up. partner passed. Varsity officials coming in behind us thought like I did.

My question is would you have reached to reward this coach his T ?

I chose not to because it happened right in front of partner and figured he had his reasons for not throwing T. He had some ref jibberish for not throwing the T.

What say you ?
No way, if my partner sees & hears all of it as well, there is no reason for me to step in here...we are a team, if he thought it wasn't enough to warrant a T, then as far as anyone else knows so did I...that said if I believed strongly that my partner was giving him far too much rope, the next time I got over there and heard another peep I might bang him for it...
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Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 10:32am
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I would most likely not reach for this one. If my partner can't take care of his own business, my reaching out to do it for him is only likely to show him up. However, that coach has just shortened his own leash and I'm not going to make the same mistake my partner did if the opportunity arises again.
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Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 10:38am
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You thought he should have got it and so did the varsity officials. It sounds like your partner was reluctant to handle business. As long as the coach is directing it totally at your partner without saying anything about the crew and he/she isn't being a total jerk, your partner has to deal with it. Otherwise, I would go after it.
If everyone except him thought the coach should have got a T, did you tell him that? The same thing could happen in another game and the seed might not have been planted in his head. This has been said before and most assigners would probably agree: you can help someone stop calling Ts, but it is harder to get them to start.
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Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 10:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
You thought he should have got it and so did the varsity officials. It sounds like your partner was reluctant to handle business. As long as the coach is directing it totally at your partner without saying anything about the crew and he/she isn't being a total jerk, your partner has to deal with it. Otherwise, I would go after it.
If everyone except him thought the coach should have got a T, did you tell him that? The same thing could happen in another game and the seed might not have been planted in his head. This has been said before and most assigners would probably agree: you can help someone stop calling Ts, but it is harder to get them to start.
Yes I talked to him at half time. Basically falls into the not interested in taking care of business camp. bottom line is he's a professional rec ref who does HS Frosh/Jv. He's got about 1 years experience repeated 6/7 times.

My assignor is of the belief that not enough T's are given. He believes that things in our area are borderline anarchy.

My assignor
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 11:39am
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This is great. You should have absolutely called--not reached--a T for this, provided that someone explained how the timing error was rectified with that coach. If he got an explanation, and the game was to move on, he needs to let it go at that point. The timing error was not the crew's fault. This is the first time I've read one of these where it looks like the coach has easily earned a T, because there should be nothing subjective about fixing a timing error. And if you don't do it, that coach owns your partner--and the crew. Did things deteriorate after this incident, or did everything settle down?
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 12:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOracle
This is great. You should have absolutely called--not reached--a T for this, provided that someone explained how the timing error was rectified with that coach.
This is amazing. Remember the Seinfeld episode where Jerry talks about the "Bizarro" world in the Superman comics? Everything is exactly the same except Superman is evil instead of good.

Well, you sir, are the Bizarro-Scrapper. Or I am the Bizarro-Oracle. I disagree with nearly every post you make here.

In another thread, you say an official should not give a T for a coach YELLING at the official across the floor. You say that would cause the official to lose credibility.

But here, you're saying that an official 45 feet away should come to the rescue of his/her partner and call a T for something that was said directly to the partner, and which the partner is completely aware of. You're thinking that WON'T damage the partner's credibility?!?!?

I don't mean to insult you or minimize your officiating experience. I've never met you and I don't know the level of ball you work or where you work. But I find your posts to be consistently off the mark.

I can't imagine what would happen to the space-time continuum if we were to actually meet.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 12:06pm
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Is that a nice way of saying he is an idiot?
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 12:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
Is that a nice way of saying he is an idiot?
Naw, he's just Old School.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 12:13pm
Huck Finn
 
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That's the same thing right?
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Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 01:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
... if I believed strongly that my partner was giving him far too much rope, the next time I got over there and heard another peep I might bang him for it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle
... that coach has just shortened his own leash and I'm not going to make the same mistake my partner did if the opportunity arises again.
I agree with both of these views.
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Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 08:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1
Well, you sir, are the Bizarro-Scrapper. Or I am the Bizarro-Oracle. I disagree with nearly every post you make here.

I don't mean to insult you or minimize your officiating experience. I've never met you and I don't know the level of ball you work or where you work. But I find your posts to be consistently off the mark.
I must agree with Scrapper. Perhaps Oracle could spend some time watching some of the more seasoned officials work and see how they manage their games.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 20, 2007, 10:23pm
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Lots of variables here.

If my partner is inexperienced and the situation is clearly over their head...deer in the head lights...I'm getting the coach, without thinking twice and really discussing it after to let them know that it will happen again and they'll need to TCB themselves.

If my partner is clearly the uncaring type that will allow themselves to be ran over, I'll pass, bring it up on the next TO and then get the coach myself if they don't on any subsequent outburst.
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