Mechanics and clock situations (Video)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

In play one, if the C doesn't make a preliminary signal, is it okay if the lead changes his own call and reports the block? Either because of a word by the C, or simply because he realizes after the fact that this is the correct call?

I guess anything is possible if it is all in your mind.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I guess anything is possible if it is all in your mind.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... can the preliminary signal by one official be immediately changed to a different preliminary signal by the same official?

I would like to hear some discussion regarding this situation. Repercussions from the coach? Getting it right? Allowed by rules? When does a call actually become a call?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I would like to hear some discussion regarding this situation. Repercussions from the coach? Getting it right? Allowed by rules? When does a call actually become a call?

A call is when you blow your whistle and tell everyone what we are doing with signal or voice. I guess you can change that situation after the fact, but you will not have much credibility when you do that. So we can play games with what it is when we actually make a call, but that would be chaos. For one if I blow my whistle, then always have a conference after the fact, then you will have every call up for debate. For example, I call a foul on a shooter near the basket and I blow my whistle before the shot goes in the basket and the shot misses, can we debate that call? Sure you could, but then what if we determine the call was not proper and no foul should have been called? Do we now go back to the point we blew the whistle and say, "No that does not count"?

This is not football where the play eventually ends and then the play can be discussed after the fact. Because no such flag ever kills the play. In basketball we are often killing the play with our whistle. And if we can debate the foul after the fact and the play would have been live, either we are going to have to change the rules to allow that to be a regular thing or we will be using the AP arrow often in games because we can debate what is the call. Because could I make a every call up for some level of discussion when the ball is clearly live.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

A call is when you blow your whistle and tell everyone what we are doing with signal or voice. I guess you can change that situation after the fact, but you will not have much credibility when you do that.

Agree.

Devil's Advocate: "Coach. My preliminary signal was premature. I jumped the gun. I should have waited for the play to develop. I called the block because I thought the play was going one way, but a split second after my preliminary signal I gave it a second thought and decided that it was definitely a player control foul. Would you rather me stick to my mistake, or would you rather me get it right?"

I'm not disagreeing with JRutledge, but is there ever a time when we're allowed to change our call (no complications, alone, by ourself, with no conference, no input from our partner, no conflicting signals, etc.).

Of course, we should all heed the advice of Confucius: "Have a patient whistle."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Official: "Coach. Would you rather me stick to my mistake, or would you rather me get it right?"

Coach: "I'd rather that you get it right the first time."

[just another ref]

The point was whether anyone felt this call was irreversible because of the preliminary signal, which most say is the key to when you "have to" report both fouls on a blarge.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

... this call was irreversible because of the preliminary signal, which most say is the key to when you "have to" report both fouls on a blarge.

Based on the interpretation, the conflicting preliminary signals (calls) are irreversible.

4.19.8 SITUATION C: A1 drives for a try and jumps and releases the ball.
Contact occurs between A1 and B1 after the release and before airborne shooter
A1 returns one foot to the floor. One official calls a blocking foul on B1 and the
other official calls a charging foul on A1. The try is (a) successful, or (b) not successful.
RULING: Even though airborne shooter A1 committed a charging foul, it
is not a player-control foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul.
The double foul does not cause the ball to become dead on the try. In (a), the goal
is scored; play is resumed at the point of interruption, which is a throw-in for
Team B from anywhere along the end line. In (b), the point of interruption is a try
in flight; therefore the alternating-possession procedure is used. (4-36)