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Old Thu May 17, 2018, 05:02pm
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Mechanics and clock situations (Video)

Play #1:



Play #2:



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Old Thu May 17, 2018, 06:05pm
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Announcers, Can't Live With Them, Can't Live Without Them ...

In play #1, I wonder if the announcers were aware that the eventual call was a double foul (correct by the book)? I think that they believe that the officials got together and decided to go with a block (as shown by the video replay).
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Old Thu May 17, 2018, 07:09pm
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In Play 1, the blarge was handled correctly (both calls were reported to the table, and the ball was given to Red). However, both officials should not have immediately signalled their fouls. I don't know if the L and C were watching NBA videos the day before, because L immediately came up with a punch, instead of stopping the clock, and C did the hitting-the-hips, which is an NCAAW/NBA signal. If L and C both put up a fist, the clock would stop, and both would have a moment to decide whose call it is, and what the call is, and thus the double-foul scenario would be avoided. In this play, the drive started in C's PCA (Trail is not in the picture, because it is a transition play), so the call should ideally go to C.

For play 2, the off-ball officials need to ensure that the clock does not run following the held-ball signal (which this crew failed to do). The held ball was signalled and the whistle blown with 11.5 seconds remaining in the 3rd quarter, but the clock ran down all the way to 4.5. The on-ball official also needs to do a time check when the clock is supposed to stop, to avoid a situation like this. Normally, officials should check the clock on every transition sequence (in shot clock games, all officials monitor both clocks every time the clock starts, in transition, when they arrive in the front court, and when the clocks stop), as well as when the clock is supposed to start (stop). Not doing this led to the technical foul, and could possibly cause the officials to not be invited back to the IHSA tournament next year. In an NCAA game, they might be suspended for a clock error like this. [Another reason why I would encourage the nationwide adoption of a shot clock is that it keeps the officials on their toes, by making them constantly aware of clock status. Maybe with a shot clock, these officials would detect that 2 clocks are running when they shouldn't, and would have to have a long discussion with the table to correct both clock errors, and avoid this embarrassing situation. ]
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Old Thu May 17, 2018, 09:58pm
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Jeff you were probably watching the game, either in person or on tv. I did neither. Was the tech on the Marian bench or did that dick head, Taylor, get it? Either way, I would not be surprised, they always have a whole cluster **** of *******s on their bench.
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Old Thu May 17, 2018, 10:11pm
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Play 1: They handled the aftermath well and properly. Surprising that the C held his fist patiently for so long and then somehow still came down with the block signal, He looked like he was just going to leave it up there, which would've been perfect. Clearly, he didn't know the L had called anything.

And the announcers had no clue a double foul was ruled.

Play 2: The technical almost certainly was on bench personnel, because the head coach seemed to have no issue with it whatsoever.

To answer the question posed in the video -- "Was the bench upset about the time on the clock?" -- "the bench" doesn't get to be upset about anything. The bench gets to STFU. The coach gets to be upset ... that's it.
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Old Thu May 17, 2018, 10:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
Jeff you were probably watching the game, either in person or on tv. I did neither. Was the tech on the Marian bench or did that dick head, Taylor, get it? Either way, I would not be surprised, they always have a whole cluster **** of *******s on their bench.
I think it was on the assistant.

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Old Fri May 18, 2018, 01:49am
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What a clusterfuk in play 1. So much wrong there. Lead isn't gonna beat the play to the end line....he needs to pull up at the 3 point line and officiate like he's a C official for a moment. It's a pretty clear block and he's guessing cuz he doesn't have great position and has players between him and the contact. Doesn't post the foul, which is mandatory in HS. And wtf is up with him literally sprinting toward the table to report?? Slot is more at fault here...I would expect state finals officials have enough experience to know that transition drives in the paint are always Lead's call. And to know to post and hold even if they do have a whistle, cuz this is the perfect situation for a blarge to occur. And the late signal from the Slot....it's not confident looking at all.

Play 2 is understandable at the HS level, guys don't work on getting good at clocks. Maybe the table would know. Don't get into an argument with the bench....address the head coach and have them take care of the bench. I have no problem with the tech here but some would argue that the bench was baited due to the long discussion beforehand. But I trust johnny d that whatever happened was well deserved
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Old Fri May 18, 2018, 01:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
C did the hitting-the-hips, which is an NCAAW/NBA signal
Huh? The open hands on the hips is the official signal according to the NFHS, NCAA-M, NCAA-W, and NBA rule sets however in the latter three it is nearly universal to use the fists on hips blocking signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ODog View Post
To answer the question posed in the video -- "Was the bench upset about the time on the clock?" -- "the bench" doesn't get to be upset about anything. The bench gets to STFU. The coach gets to be upset ... that's it.
Yup.
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Old Fri May 18, 2018, 06:05am
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Or Is It Half Right ???

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Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
The open hands on the hips is the official signal according to the NFHS, NCAA-M, NCAA-W, and NBA rule sets however in the latter three it is nearly universal to use the fists on hips blocking signal.
Most (but not all) high school officials here in my little corner of Connecticut use fists. The best that I can do is to be half wrong, fists at preliminary, open hands at the reporting site. Old habits die hard.
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Old Fri May 18, 2018, 07:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
In Play 1, the blarge was handled correctly (both calls were reported to the table, and the ball was given to Red). However, both officials should not have immediately signalled their fouls. I don't know if the L and C were watching NBA videos the day before, because L immediately came up with a punch, instead of stopping the clock, and C did the hitting-the-hips, which is an NCAAW/NBA signal. If L and C both put up a fist, the clock would stop, and both would have a moment to decide whose call it is, and what the call is, and thus the double-foul scenario would be avoided. In this play, the drive started in C's PCA (Trail is not in the picture, because it is a transition play), so the call should ideally go to C.
Yes, I'm sure that this HS crew spent the night before the state finals watching NBA videos so they could apply NBA mechanics to the game. The play comes right down the middle, so L can get it. And, it's (for whatever reason) much harder for L to hold up on the signal than it is for C/T to do so. As it turns out, C had a better look -- but I can't fault L for making the call.
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Old Fri May 18, 2018, 09:53am
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1. Need to be slow to show from the C there. Looks like that is his plan as he comes in pretty slow and then gives a pretty weak signal but not sure all that was going on.

2. You don't have precision timing system for final 8 in IL? We have them for the final 8 in our state.
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Old Fri May 18, 2018, 09:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdoebler View Post
2. You don't have precision timing system for final 8 in IL? We have them for the final 8 in our state.
We don’t use PTS at all here. In fact I would wager that that’s the case in most states.
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Old Fri May 18, 2018, 10:17am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdoebler View Post
1. Need to be slow to show from the C there. Looks like that is his plan as he comes in pretty slow and then gives a pretty weak signal but not sure all that was going on.

2. You don't have precision timing system for final 8 in IL? We have them for the final 8 in our state.
I would be surprised too, because Carver Arena, where the state games are played, is home to a D1 university, many of whom use PTS. I believe that officials must be especially aware of starting and stopping the clock properly when there is no PTS, and not rely too much on the system when it is there (use good mechanics, so the operator knows to step in when the system fails).

My comment on NBA videos was not meant seriously, merely to highlight the use of non-approved mechanics at a high school game. If the Lead stopped the clock with a fist (the correct thing to do in HS and college), we would not have a blarge, since it was the Lead's premature preliminary signal that led to the double foul.
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Old Fri May 18, 2018, 10:57am
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The blarge could've been prevented with a good pregame.
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Old Fri May 18, 2018, 11:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Most (but not all) high school officials here in my little corner of Connecticut use fists. The best that I can do is to be half wrong, fists at preliminary, open hands at the reporting site. Old habits die hard.
Unfortunately my state office gives way too much of a crap about not using "college mechanics" in high school games.
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