Texas @ Michigan plays (Video)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I just need to look at the videos and guidelines. If I'm the lead in this play I'm going to be looking straight across and seeing the 2 on 2 or the 3 on 3. I won't be looking back to the players at the division line. If that's what they want i know I'm going to need the C to help with that…a lot.

I guess i think of the secondary defender and RA stuff as being there to prevent "help like" Block/charge plays. In a 3 on 2 the middle man might pass ball to wing. they don't want either defender then sliding over to take charge in RA. no player got beat in that type of situation but they call him secondary because they don't want him sliding over in the RA. Similar type of play as the regular RA plays. Primary gets beat, somebody slides over/helps. Here if 4 black would set up in the RA it really isn't a "help like" play. There's no sliding over etc. I just wouldn't make the decision if it is outnumbered or not by looking at the division line or just inside of it. I would look closer to the basket and look at the numbers, and then the RA and then do math on number of players and then…..screw it up anyway…. I just need to look at the ncaam stuff. thx

I think the bottom line you are making this too complicated. You want to commingle coaching status to rules status. All RA players can be evaluated by a non-calling official. So if you think it is a outnumbered break and call it accordingly, a partner can come in and tell you otherwise to get the call right.

I just have remembered the stuff talked about in the meetings and remember parts of the video. I am a little busy right now and not my issue, so you will just have to wait unless someone else has some information themselves. Past NCAA videos are on YouTube or might even be on the NCAA Arbiter site, but I thin you are worrying too much about a situation that did not even result in an RA situation in the first place. The player jumped so the RA did not apply here at all.

BTW, I think it was not a foul when I saw the play live and went back and saw more of a foul when I saw the replay and slowed it down. But I see why it was not called either. But I do not think the outnumbered break had anything to do with the call. I just think the official made a ruling and probably considered other plays in the game as well. After all I think that official did an NFL a couple of days before that game.

Peace

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think the bottom line you are making this too complicated. You want to commingle coaching status to rules status. All RA players can be evaluated by a non-calling official. So if you think it is a outnumbered break and call it accordingly, a partner can come in and tell you otherwise to get the call right.

I just have remembered the stuff talked about in the meetings and remember parts of the video. I am a little busy right now and not my issue, so you will just have to wait unless someone else has some information themselves. Past NCAA videos are on YouTube or might even be on the NCAA Arbiter site, but I thin you are worrying too much about a situation that did not even result in an RA situation in the first place. The player jumped so the RA did not apply here at all.

BTW, I think it was not a foul when I saw the play live and went back and saw more of a foul when I saw the replay and slowed it down. But I see why it was not called either. But I do not think the outnumbered break had anything to do with the call. I just think the official made a ruling and probably considered other plays in the game as well. After all I think that official did an NFL a couple of days before that game.

Peace

No, I'm not making it too complicated. I want to know where it is you look and when to decide even or outnumbered. I know I can get help but I want to know where the cutoff is. I realize this play doesn't involve the RA. I realize Steratore was the official and I understand completely why he didn't have a foul. He's running etc. I think it was a foul on replay.

And, I'm not worrying. I just like to have the answers. Even to questions that may not come up much. And maybe I should understand sooner but I'm going to keep asking til I understand. I accepted your view that I look farther back, even to half court to decide even or outnumbered. I just don't know why we would go back that far and gave my reasons why I Wouldn't do that.

That's just making a statement. As I said earlier, I need to see the guidelines myself. I will find them. I appreciate you putting the plays up.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigCat

No, I'm not making it too complicated. I want to know where it is you look and when to decide even or outnumbered. I know I can get help but I want to know where the cutoff is. I realize this play doesn't involve the RA. I realize Steratore was the official and I understand completely why he didn't have a foul. He's running etc. I think it was a foul on replay.

Well you are if you have several officials that work this level (not necessarily D1) that are telling you that you are making this a little too complicated. Because the rule is not written to be that defined.

And my comment about Steatore was sarcastic. Not really about his ability of an official. I was actually surprised he was on a college game either a day or two after his NFL game.

Originally Posted by BigCat

And, I'm not worrying. I just like to have the answers. Even to questions that may not come up much. And maybe I should understand sooner but I'm going to keep asking til I understand. I accepted your view that I look farther back, even to half court to decide even or outnumbered. I just don't know why we would go back that far and gave my reasons why I Wouldn't do that.

That's just making a statement. As I said earlier, I need to see the guidelines myself. I will find them. I appreciate you putting the plays up.

I understand, but the reality is that I do not think any of us can get the answer you are looking for even if you see the video. Even if I show you what I remember, it might not answer all your questions.

Peace

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well you are if you have several officials that work this level (not necessarily D1) that are telling you that you are making this a little too complicated. Because the rule is not written to be that defined.

And my comment about Steatore was sarcastic. Not really about his ability of an official. I was actually surprised he was on a college game either a day or two after his NFL game.



I understand, but the reality is that I do not think any of us can get the answer you are looking for even if you see the video. Even if I show you what I remember, it might not answer all your questions.

Peace

He probably had 3 games leading up to the NFL games...
I have done college for a long time and since the RA came in. I realize nobody talks about what is outnumbered v even. I havnt worried about it and i havnt had an "even" situation yet. I guess on this one, if 4 black initially tried to establish LGP in the paint and get run over i would have said it was "even." Id be looking across and see 2 on 2 and maybe the 3 on 3. I would not have looked further back. If i was ever going to see even id say this was it. And according to the guidelines, id be....wrong.

I can say dont worry about it and just know that it's usually/always going to be outnumbered but i just like getting as much info as i can. Being wrong....bothers me....because.... im never wrong. Just ask my wife, she tells me that all the time...

On to the next one. Thx

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BigCat

No, I'm not making it too complicated. I want to know where it is you look and when to decide even or outnumbered. I know I can get help but I want to know where the cutoff is. I realize this play doesn't involve the RA. I realize Steratore was the official and I understand completely why he didn't have a foul. He's running etc. I think it was a foul on replay.

And, I'm not worrying. I just like to have the answers. Even to questions that may not come up much. And maybe I should understand sooner but I'm going to keep asking til I understand. I accepted your view that I look farther back, even to half court to decide even or outnumbered. I just don't know why we would go back that far and gave my reasons why I Wouldn't do that.

That's just making a statement. As I said earlier, I need to see the guidelines myself. I will find them. I appreciate you putting the plays up.

Most fast breaks we are just assuming that a defender who is back guarding the paint is initially a secondary defender. That is the accepted philosophy.

No one has ever worried about the technical distinction on which you are focusing, at least in any discussion I have had or any game I have officiated.

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