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Irrespective of anything the RA restriction does not apply to an defender that is airborne making a play on the ball. The only time the RA is used in a case where you would have called a PC foul however the player did not meet the requirements due to being (1) secondary (2) within the RA plane at the point of contact & (3) NOT airborne.
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in OS I trust |
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Look at Jeff's video clips (id like to know how he does that BTW). The second frame shows two offense and two defense out in front. behind them are another offense and defensive player. still even. behind them, near division line are 2 more offense and only one defense. If i look at what i would call the point of attack, near the basket--id call this 2 on 2. If i look back a bit, i see 3 on 3. if i look back further to just inside the division line now we have an odd number. Without seeing the ncaa guidelines or videos i wouldn't really be including the guys at the division line as part of the "fast break." They are trailing the play and might be part of some secondary break. Anyway, i need to look at the guidelines and videos. i would like to see one where the ncaa calls it even as opposed to "outnumbered." thx |
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Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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It's on an uneven break ALL defenders secondary until they become primary.
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in OS I trust |
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A defender can be considered a primary defender even though he is yet to establish a LGP on the player near him. 4 black is primary if we say this is an even break and he can first establish LGP in the RA. The question i have is what is even and what is outnumbered and where do you look to determine it. I have 8 more lives left so ive got time to stay after this Let me know what I'm screwing up…I realize you may not have 8 more lives so its ok if you've had enough... |
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in OS I trust |
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Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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I guess i think of the secondary defender and RA stuff as being there to prevent "help like" Block/charge plays. In a 3 on 2 the middle man might pass ball to wing. they don't want either defender then sliding over to take charge in RA. no player got beat in that type of situation but they call him secondary because they don't want him sliding over in the RA. Similar type of play as the regular RA plays. Primary gets beat, somebody slides over/helps. Here if 4 black would set up in the RA it really isn't a "help like" play. There's no sliding over etc. I just wouldn't make the decision if it is outnumbered or not by looking at the division line or just inside of it. I would look closer to the basket and look at the numbers, and then the RA and then do math on number of players and then…..screw it up anyway…. I just need to look at the ncaam stuff. thx |
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I just have remembered the stuff talked about in the meetings and remember parts of the video. I am a little busy right now and not my issue, so you will just have to wait unless someone else has some information themselves. Past NCAA videos are on YouTube or might even be on the NCAA Arbiter site, but I thin you are worrying too much about a situation that did not even result in an RA situation in the first place. The player jumped so the RA did not apply here at all. BTW, I think it was not a foul when I saw the play live and went back and saw more of a foul when I saw the replay and slowed it down. But I see why it was not called either. But I do not think the outnumbered break had anything to do with the call. I just think the official made a ruling and probably considered other plays in the game as well. After all I think that official did an NFL a couple of days before that game. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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Making this more complicated again. All it means for a secondary defender is that they are not primary defender. With that comes certain guideline. IF a defender isn't primary then when and where can they establish LGP. The fact is on most fast breaks you may not have time to count as the lead if it's even or uneven, but you can usually have a faint clue a vast majority of the time. If unsure I would go with uneven make my call and then ask the C real quick if he has extra info and go from there. I would probably pregame this with a hand signal or such that either confirms my call or I need to chat with the C.
It's really not that tough.
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And, I'm not worrying. I just like to have the answers. Even to questions that may not come up much. And maybe I should understand sooner but I'm going to keep asking til I understand. I accepted your view that I look farther back, even to half court to decide even or outnumbered. I just don't know why we would go back that far and gave my reasons why I Wouldn't do that. That's just making a statement. As I said earlier, I need to see the guidelines myself. I will find them. I appreciate you putting the plays up. Last edited by BigCat; Thu Dec 08, 2016 at 08:28pm. |
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And my comment about Steatore was sarcastic. Not really about his ability of an official. I was actually surprised he was on a college game either a day or two after his NFL game. Quote:
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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No one has ever worried about the technical distinction on which you are focusing, at least in any discussion I have had or any game I have officiated. Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
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I have done college for a long time and since the RA came in. I realize nobody talks about what is outnumbered v even. I havnt worried about it and i havnt had an "even" situation yet. I guess on this one, if 4 black initially tried to establish LGP in the paint and get run over i would have said it was "even." Id be looking across and see 2 on 2 and maybe the 3 on 3. I would not have looked further back. If i was ever going to see even id say this was it. And according to the guidelines, id be....wrong. I can say dont worry about it and just know that it's usually/always going to be outnumbered but i just like getting as much info as i can. Being wrong....bothers me....because.... im never wrong. Just ask my wife, she tells me that all the time... On to the next one. Thx |
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