Texas @ Michigan plays (Video)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I'd have to look again but i thought it looked like a 2 on 2 break. There are players behind but 2 on 2 essentially to me. Not outnumbering fast break. So the player who fouled, is guarding the player with the ball initially. If he had set up in the RA and taken a charge regular block charge rules apply. RA isn't factor. he is a primary defender.

There are only two defenders back, they are outnumbers. If all the other players just watched, maybe you have a point there. But not being outnumbered from my understanding is when all 5 defenders are back. Then each defender has a man potentially. This still fits the rule. But again the rule only applies when a player is on the floor. When the player jumps up in the air, they are treated like any other place on the floor.

Peace

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There are only two defenders back, they are outnumbers. If all the other players just watched, maybe you have a point there. But not being outnumbered from my understanding is when all 5 defenders are back. Then each defender has a man potentially. This still fits the rule. But again the rule only applies when a player is on the floor. When the player jumps up in the air, they are treated like any other place on the floor.

Peace

As a player, coach and referee that is not an outnumbered fast break. 2 defensive players back, 2 offensive players at point of attack. Behind them is an offensive and defensive player. I would tell my point guard to look as he is going up floor and if he can slow down and let players on each side fill the wings we may be able to turn a 2 on 2 into a 3 on 2.

Here we have 2 defensive players back and 2 offensive players heading to the rim. That's a fast break. The other players are trailing close to each other. If there was an offensive player trailing the play and no defense around you could say it is a 3 on 2. That's not the case here.
You can have an "even" fast break as opposed to an "outnumbered" one without having all 5 players back. Look at the play and how many offense and defense are there on the break.

I guess i should add that i dont get the interps from arbiter etc. maybe that is what they have said.
I do agree that all this isnt a factor in this play because defender is not trying to take charge etc. he can jump to block shot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigCat

As a player, coach and referee that is not an outnumbered fast break. 2 defensive players back, 2 offensive players at point of attack. Behind them is an offensive and defensive player. I would tell my point guard to look as he is going up floor and if he can slow down and let players on each side fill the wings we may be able to turn a 2 on 2 into a 3 on 2.

Here we have 2 defensive players back and 2 offensive players heading to the rim. That's a fast break. The other players are trailing close to each other. If there was an offensive player trailing the play and no defense around you could say it is a 3 on 2. That's not the case here.
You can have an "even" fast break as opposed to an "outnumbered" one without having all 5 players back. Look at the play and how many offense and defense are there on the break.

I do agree that all this isnt a factor in this play because defender is not trying to take charge etc. he can jump to block shot.

I am not talking as a player or coach. That is the interpretation from the rules committee or the Supervisor of Officials. This has been addressed in the NCAA video the last couple of years.

Peace

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not talking as a player or coach. That is the interpretation from the rules committee or the Supervisor of Officials. This has been addressed in the NCAA video the last couple of years.

Peace

Yes, i edited because i dont get the videos. However, you will never ever convince me that to have an "even" fast break all 5 defenders have to be back. That's just silly.

This was a 2 on 2 fast break.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Yes, i edited because i dont get the videos. However, you will never ever convince me that to have an "even" fast break all 5 defenders have to be back. That's just silly.

This was a 2 on 2 fast break.

I am not trying to convince you, I am telling you how the rule is applied. Coaches, players and fans all speak different languages than officials. So nothing is new here.

Peace

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not trying to convince you, I am telling you how the rule is applied. Coaches, players and fans all speak different languages than officials. So nothing is new here.

Peace

So, unless 5 defenders are back there can be no "even" fast break? Without 5 defenders back we always have an "outnumbered" fast break situation? That ignores what a fast break is. I've seen stranger things i suppose but that doesnt make any sense to me. Outnumbered to me means 2 on 1 or 3 on 2. If its 1 on 1, that's even. If its 2 on 2 that's even. If its 4 on 3 that's odd. If its 4 on 4 that's even....

I dont see 5 back as a requirement.

If the defense gets 5 back it's no longer a fast break...

[JRutledge]

I am just telling you what was stated in some videos. Maybe there is an A.R. That makes this clearer as well. There is nothing that defines what you said that is is not an outnumbered break. There are two Michigan players ahead, but right behind them are the other Michigan players and some Texas players trailing.

At 7 seconds in the video I posted, there was 5 Michigan players in the picture and only 4 Texas players in the picture. One Texas player was trailing all players on this break.

Here is an example of the play at different times.


Peace