How do your Correct the error

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

That only applies to any ensuing action after the ball becomes live subsequent to a correctable error.

Read the OP - break it into a sequence:
1. A1 is awarded 2 free throws
2. After the first free throw, B1 rebounds the ball and goes to the other end and scores.

Now look at the applicable rules:
1. By rule, the ball becomes immediately dead when it is clear the first free throw attempt will be unsuccessful if a second attempt is to follow.
2. By rule, a goal can only be scored when the ball is live.

Finally, review the rules on how a ball can become live, and tell us how a ball that is dead by rule after the first FT is missed suddenly becomes live again so B1 could take it down court and score. Please provide a rule citation.

The only way the ball would remain live after the miss on the first attempt is if the officials erroneously indicated only one free throw, and there is absolutely nothing in the OP to support that.

It doesn't matter what the official indicates. The fact is the player was supposed to get 2 shots and didn't. Call it whatever you want---ball comes back to life..etc. When the officials, scorer, timer etc all screw up and play goes on that is the error. They did not give the player his second FT.

2-10-5. consumed time, points scored etc is not nullified. read the rule and the case plays.

Tim, If we follow your argument …the ball is dead after the first FT and remains dead, then how would it ever be alive again? Play could go on for another 2 quarters…but the ball was dead after the first FT. Your argument renders the portion of the rule which says the error must be recognized during the first dead ball after the clock has started meaningless. A shoots the first FT, officials let play continue, clock starts…but your analysis says the ball is still dead. The ball is supposed to be dead or remain dead after the first FT but when it doesn't that is the error.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Tim, If we follow your argument …the ball is dead after the first FT and remains dead, then how would it ever be alive again? Play could go on for another 2 quarters…but the ball was dead after the first FT. Your argument renders the portion of the rule which says the error must be recognized during the first dead ball after the clock has started meaningless. A shoots the first FT, officials let play continue, clock starts…but your analysis says the ball is still dead. The ball is supposed to be dead or remain dead after the first FT but when it doesn't that is the error.

Not true - see the rule on how a ball can become live.

Did the clock start? nothing in the OP says it did....even if it did, the clock starting does not make the ball live.

Again, please provide a rule citation on how the dead ball on the miss suddenly became live so B1 could run down court and score.

The correctable error rule specifies how, when and what you may correct when play has resumed before a correctable error is recognized. That's not the situation in the OP - play never resumed.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

Not true - see the rule on how a ball can become live.

Did the clock start? nothing in the OP says it did....even if it did, the clock starting does not make the ball live.

Again, please provide a rule citation on how the dead ball on the miss suddenly became live so B1 could run down court and score.

The correctable error rule specifies how, when and what you may correct when play has resumed before a correctable error is recognized. That's not the situation in the OP - play never resumed.

Well Tim, I am assuming the clock started and others played and the officials allowed play to continue. The question is about correctable errors. If everybody knows and recognizes there is another FT to come…and B1 gets rebound, dribbles, to the other end and shoots it…we would be talking about a technical foul.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by BigCat

...... If everybody knows and recognizes there is another FT to come…and B1 gets rebound, dribbles, to the other end and shoots it…we would be talking about a technical foul.

From the OP it sounds to me like that's exactly what happened. " After the first freethrow, B1 rebounds the ball and goes to the other end and scores."

Don't think I'd go with a T - just consider it a brain fart on the part of B1, disregard his "goal" and proceed with A1's 2nd FT.

Now if he went to the other end and dunked the ball, we might have a T for dunking a dead ball.....

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

From the OP it sounds to me like that's exactly what happened. " After the first freethrow, B1 rebounds the ball and goes to the other end and scores."

Don't think I'd go with a T - just consider it a brain fart on the part of B1, disregard his "goal" and proceed with A1's 2nd FT.

Now if he went to the other end and dunked the ball, we might have a T for dunking a dead ball.....

Tim,
That's not what the OP meant. He was asking about a correctable error. If officials know and recognize there's another FT they would have blown whistle when B started dribbling. Had they recognized it they wouldn't have allowed him to dribble all the way down the court and shoot.

And.. if I blew my whistle after a FT and a kid continued on down the floor and didn't stop there would certainly be a T.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Tim,
That's not what the OP meant. He was asking about a correctable error. If officials know and recognize there's another FT they would have blown whistle when B started dribbling. Had they recognized it they wouldn't have allowed him to dribble all the way down the court and shoot.

And.. if I blew my whistle after a FT and a kid continued on down the floor and didn't stop there would certainly be a T.

I agree that they should have blown their whistles, but even if they didn't, the ball is still dead by rule. Just because they didn't stop B1 from dribbling it down court doesn't make the ball live again.

The officials recognized it immediately thereafter - there was no interim play.

Because it was immediate, I maintain that the best way to handle it is to disallow B1's "goal" and proceed with A1's 2nd free throw. I can easily justify that by rule as previously cited.

"Coach, A1 was awarded two free throws. By rule the ball was dead when the first was missed and you can't score a goal when the ball is dead so B1's rebound and goal doesn't count. We're proceeding with A1's 2nd free throw."

[Dad]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

I agree that they should have blown their whistles, but even if they didn't, the ball is still dead by rule. Just because they didn't stop B1 from dribbling it down court doesn't make the ball live again.

The officials recognized it immediately thereafter - there was no interim play.

Because it was immediate, I maintain that the best way to handle it is to disallow B1's "goal" and proceed with A1's 2nd free throw. I can easily justify that by rule as previously cited.

"Coach, A1 was awarded two free throws. By rule the ball was dead when the first was missed and you can't score a goal when the ball is dead so B1's rebound and goal doesn't count. We're proceeding with A1's 2nd free throw."

While the OP is most likely talking about a CE, Tim has a point, albeit probably didn't happen. It has to be an officials error for us to be able to count the shot. Here's a play that isn't a thing: B coach tells his team to quickly rebound the first shot and throw it down for a lay-up in the hopes they can make the basket before the officials blow their whistle.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

I agree that they should have blown their whistles, but even if they didn't, the ball is still dead by rule. Just because they didn't stop B1 from dribbling it down court doesn't make the ball live again.

The officials recognized it immediately thereafter - there was no interim play.

Because it was immediate, I maintain that the best way to handle it is to disallow B1's "goal" and proceed with A1's 2nd free throw. I can easily justify that by rule as previously cited.

"Coach, A1 was awarded two free throws. By rule the ball was dead when the first was missed and you can't score a goal when the ball is dead so B1's rebound and goal doesn't count. We're proceeding with A1's 2nd free throw."

Tim,

You have effectively taken 2-10-5 and 6 out of the Correctable error rule. Read the case play Bob cited.

Here's what the conversation should be---Both coaches together--"Coaches we screwed up and allowed the ball to remain in play when A1 should have gotten another free throw. The error was discovered in time to correct it. By rule all time that ran off clock, points scored before we stopped play are not nullified. Clock stays where it is at now and B's basket counts. We will shoot A1s other FT with no one on lane and then we will put the ball in play at the point of interruption (where we stopped the game when we realized there was a problem.) That will be a throw in for team A on the end line. That's what the rules require.

Again, sorry for the screw up."

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

From the OP it sounds to me like that's exactly what happened. " After the first freethrow, B1 rebounds the ball and goes to the other end and scores."

Don't think I'd go with a T - just consider it a brain fart on the part of B1, disregard his "goal" and proceed with A1's 2nd FT.

Now if he went to the other end and dunked the ball, we might have a T for dunking a dead ball.....

If he started dribbling and the officials knew the ball was dead, don't you think they would have simply blown a whistle and pulled him back before he dribbled the whole length of the floor? The OP only makes sense if the officials were also permitting play to take place.

[BryanV21]

Tim sounds an awful lot like another member of this forum that was too stubborn to listen to veteran officials tell him he was wrong over, and over, and over...

I can't remember that guy's name.