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Old Tue Feb 16, 2016, 01:55pm
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How do your Correct the error

A1 is awarded two free throws. After the first freethrow, B1 rebounds the ball and goes to the other end and scores. Before the ball is at the disposal for Team A, The officials then realize that A1 was not awarded is second freethrow. The officials count the basket by B1. They then go to the other end and Award A1 the second freethrow. A1 makes the second and the officials then award the ball back to team B.
Were the officials correct? What's the ruling
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoochy View Post
A1 is awarded two free throws. After the first freethrow, B1 rebounds the ball and goes to the other end and scores. Before the ball is at the disposal for Team A, The officials then realize that A1 was not awarded is second freethrow. The officials count the basket by B1. They then go to the other end and Award A1 the second freethrow. A1 makes the second and the officials then award the ball back to team B.
Were the officials correct? What's the ruling
The basket by B counts. They should go and shoot A1s other free throw with no one on the lane. Then the ball is given to A because B made the basket. that is the POI. So if they gave the ball to B after the FT they did not do it correctly. You go to the POI because the made basket by B constitutes a change of possession. 2-10-6

Last edited by BigCat; Tue Feb 16, 2016 at 02:11pm.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoochy View Post
A1 is awarded two free throws. After the first freethrow, B1 rebounds the ball and goes to the other end and scores. Before the ball is at the disposal for Team A, The officials then realize that A1 was not awarded is second freethrow. The officials count the basket by B1. They then go to the other end and Award A1 the second freethrow. A1 makes the second and the officials then award the ball back to team B.
Were the officials correct? What's the ruling
Pretty sure they were wrong no matter what.

Change of possession = POI which would've been A's ball.

No change of possession = line the players up like any other FT.

Giving the ball to B was the worst option?
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:19pm
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Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
The basket by B counts. They should go and shoot A1s other free throw with no one on the lane. Then the ball is given to A because B made the basket. that is the POI. So if they gave the ball to B after the FT they did not do it correctly. You go to the POI because the made basket by B constitutes a change of possession. 2-10-6
This is the correct administration.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2016, 03:09pm
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After the initial free throw, did all the players attempt to rebound? Or was B1 the only one who made an initial attempt to secure the rebound? If the other players, knowing that the ball would be dead after the first free throw, did not go for the rebound or try to play defense, how do you justify the basket by B? I know what the case play says, but the original situation needs more details.


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Old Tue Feb 16, 2016, 03:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoochy View Post
A1 is awarded two free throws. After the first freethrow, B1 rebounds the ball and goes to the other end and scores. Before the ball is at the disposal for Team A, The officials then realize that A1 was not awarded is second freethrow. The officials count the basket by B1. They then go to the other end and Award A1 the second freethrow. A1 makes the second and the officials then award the ball back to team B.
Were the officials correct? What's the ruling
I guess my only question/comment is how does a crew of 2 or 3 guys allow this to happen? Some of the situations that are asked about just blow my mind. How does this stuff happen?
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2016, 03:26pm
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Originally Posted by DrPete View Post
After the initial free throw, did all the players attempt to rebound? Or was B1 the only one who made an initial attempt to secure the rebound? If the other players, knowing that the ball would be dead after the first free throw, did not go for the rebound or try to play defense, how do you justify the basket by B? I know what the case play says, but the original situation needs more details.


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Even if B1 is the only one to do anything, if no one blows the whistle until after he scores, there's no much justification to cancel the score.

We can only fix so much.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2016, 03:42pm
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Let's Go To The Videotape ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPete View Post
After the initial free throw, did all the players attempt to rebound? Or was B1 the only one who made an initial attempt to secure the rebound? If the other players, knowing that the ball would be dead after the first free throw, did not go for the rebound or try to play defense, how do you justify the basket by B?
8.6.1 SITUATION: A1 is about to attempt the first of a one-and-one free-throw
situation. The administering official steps in and erroneously informs players that
two shots will be taken. A1's first attempt is unsuccessful. The missed shot is
rebounded by: (a) B1, with all other players motionless in anticipation of another
throw; (b) A2, with all other players motionless in anticipation of another throw;
or (c) B2, with several players from both teams attempting to secure the rebound.
The officials recognize their error at this point. RULING: In (a) and (b), the official's
error clearly put one team at a disadvantage (players stood motionless and
didn't attempt to rebound). Play should be whistled dead immediately and
resumed using the alternating-possession procedure. In (c), both teams made an
attempt to rebound despite the official's error and had an equal opportunity to
gain possession of the rebound. Play should continue. (2-3)
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2016, 05:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPete View Post
After the initial free throw, did all the players attempt to rebound? Or was B1 the only one who made an initial attempt to secure the rebound? If the other players, knowing that the ball would be dead after the first free throw, did not go for the rebound or try to play defense, how do you justify the basket by B? I know what the case play says, but the original situation needs more details.


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Sorry, I do not have anymore details. A fellow official asked if I could post the play on this site. I just copied what he wrote. I guess, assume other players attempted to grab the rebound.
I do not know what level of competition for this game.
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Old Tue Feb 16, 2016, 05:44pm
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Originally Posted by Zoochy View Post
Sorry, I do not have anymore details. A fellow official asked if I could post the play on this site. I just copied what he wrote. I guess, assume other players attempted to grab the rebound.
I do not know what level of competition for this game.
Assuming everyone played the rebound, then they should have had A1 shoot his 2nd FT with the lane cleared, then given A the ball for an end-line throw-in following B's basket.

You cannot count B's basket AND give B the ball.
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Old Wed Feb 17, 2016, 02:14am
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OK, let's look at this another way. This wasn't a 1+1 situation as described in BillyMac's case reference regarding incorrect instructions from an official on a 1+1 - not even remotely close.

1. Per the OP's situation as described, A1 was awarded 2 free throws.

2. Per 7-2-a, the ball becomes dead when it is apparent that a free throw will not be successful on a free throw which is to be followed by another free throw. It's automatically dead - there is nothing that requires an official's whistle.

3. Now let's look at 5-1: A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through.

As the ball was immediately dead after A1's miss on the first FT attempt per 7-2-a, B1 can't possibly score because it is not a goal per 5-1.

The correct ruling is to disallow/cancel the "goal" by B1 and line everyone up for A1's 2nd attempt.
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Last edited by TimTaylor; Wed Feb 17, 2016 at 02:48am.
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Old Wed Feb 17, 2016, 07:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTaylor View Post
1. Per the OP's situation as described, A1 was awarded 2 free throws.

2. Per 7-2-a, the ball becomes dead when it is apparent that a free throw will not be successful on a free throw which is to be followed by another free throw. It's automatically dead - there is nothing that requires an official's whistle.

3. Now let's look at 5-1: A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through.

As the ball was immediately dead after A1's miss on the first FT attempt per 7-2-a, B1 can't possibly score because it is not a goal per 5-1.

The correct ruling is to disallow/cancel the "goal" by B1 and line everyone up for A1's 2nd attempt.
Sometimes we try to make calculus out of basic arithmetic.

One of the five correctable errors is failure to award a merited FT. What generally happens after we fail to award a merited FT? The ball becomes live. That's why it's an error in the first place. If we mess up in terms of applying NF 7-2a then NF 2-10 and its conditions kick in to correct things.
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Old Wed Feb 17, 2016, 09:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTaylor View Post
OK, let's look at this another way. This wasn't a 1+1 situation as described in BillyMac's case reference regarding incorrect instructions from an official on a 1+1 - not even remotely close.

1. Per the OP's situation as described, A1 was awarded 2 free throws.

2. Per 7-2-a, the ball becomes dead when it is apparent that a free throw will not be successful on a free throw which is to be followed by another free throw. It's automatically dead - there is nothing that requires an official's whistle.

3. Now let's look at 5-1: A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through.

As the ball was immediately dead after A1's miss on the first FT attempt per 7-2-a, B1 can't possibly score because it is not a goal per 5-1.

The correct ruling is to disallow/cancel the "goal" by B1 and line everyone up for A1's 2nd attempt.
The rule book lays out how to handle not awarding a merited free throw, and that doesn't include canceling the score by Team B.

In fact, and I don't have my rule book handy, I believe it says something like "everything that happens before the error is found, including scoring, is not cancelled."

Last edited by BryanV21; Wed Feb 17, 2016 at 09:44am.
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Old Wed Feb 17, 2016, 09:50am
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Did the officials announce 1-1 or 2 shots?
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Old Wed Feb 17, 2016, 11:02am
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Originally Posted by deecee View Post
Did the officials announce 1-1 or 2 shots?
Not clear - the OP states "A1 is awarded 2 free throws", and there is nothing in the post to imply they announced only 1, so without information to the contrary we have to assume they announced it correctly.
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