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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 01, 2007, 07:56pm
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Correct a "rules" error?

Fellow ref told me about this.

One-point game in final seconds. B has a throw-in on Team A endline. Administering official calls a throw-in violation. Team B coach asks what the violation was. Official says, "Thrower had his foot on the line."

Coach calls time out. During the time out, officials get together and calling official repeats what he told the coach.

You are the partner. You know the rule says the foot must cross the line and be on the court for it to be a violation. Merely touching the line is not a violation.

What do you do? Tell your partner what the rule says and allow him to change his call to inadvertant whistle? Or say nothing?
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Old Mon Jan 01, 2007, 08:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStateRef
What do you do? Tell your partner what the rule says and allow him to change his call to inadvertant whistle? Or say nothing?
I try to get it right.
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Old Mon Jan 01, 2007, 08:17pm
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What would be wrong with talking to your partner here? As him what he saw and make sure it is right... it wont take long to do and it will get it right
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Old Mon Jan 01, 2007, 08:29pm
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I talk to my partner, discreetly, and let him know what the rule says. His call, but I'm telling him the rule and giving him a chance to change to an IW. Fallout from A's coach is going to be huge, though. Be prepared to handle that.
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Old Mon Jan 01, 2007, 08:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
I talk to my partner, discreetly, and let him know what the rule says. His call, but I'm telling him the rule and giving him a chance to change to an IW. Fallout from A's coach is going to be huge, though. Be prepared to handle that.
Snaq is right on the money here. You've done your job, it's up to your partner to do his/hers. That way nobody can criticize my performance later and say I was ignorant of the rules or I let something go when I knew better. Get it right, get out.
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Old Mon Jan 01, 2007, 08:49pm
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It's unanimous - you give your partner the needed information to make the correct call. It's his call - especially since he's the only one that saw the play, only he can change it. He either has to eat his call (or the wording of the call) or change it. He's gonna catch it one way or the other.
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Old Tue Jan 02, 2007, 12:18am
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What all of them said!

There's never an excuse for getting a rule wrong! This is not about a judgment call, it's about a rule interpretation. It will be his call to change it...but it's the officiating team's responsibility to make sure the rule is applied correctly. If he chooses not to change it, then the other partners need to be "on record" among themselves as to what they said was the right way to apply the rule.

Last edited by Rusty Gilbert; Tue Jan 02, 2007 at 12:21am.
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Old Tue Jan 02, 2007, 01:32am
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Originally Posted by Rusty Gilbert
What all of them said!

There's never an excuse for getting a rule wrong! This is not about a judgment call, it's about a rule interpretation. It will be his call to change it...but it's the officiating team's responsibility to make sure the rule is applied correctly. If he chooses not to change it, then the other partners need to be "on record" among themselves as to what they said was the right way to apply the rule.
Yup, then after the game look it up in the locker room, and loser buys dinner.
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Old Tue Jan 02, 2007, 03:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStateRef

You are the partner. You know the rule says the foot must cross the line and be on the court for it to be a violation. Merely touching the line is not a violation.
I want to make sure that I understand correctly. It's any part of the foot on the court is a violation, it doesn't have the be the whole foot.

And

A foot (or portion there of) that is over the court before the ball is released is okay as long as the ball has left the in-bounder's hands before the foot touches the court.

Still learning here .. thanks for the help.
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Old Tue Jan 02, 2007, 07:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmaellis
I want to make sure that I understand correctly. It's any part of the foot on the court is a violation, it doesn't have the be the whole foot.

And

A foot (or portion there of) that is over the court before the ball is released is okay as long as the ball has left the in-bounder's hands before the foot touches the court.

Still learning here .. thanks for the help.
Correct understanding in both cases.
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Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 01:40am
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okay, so just being a little argumentative here, suppose the coach hadn't called a to. Do you still hustle over to P and follow this procedure? There's not any extra time to discuss it, but it was a wrong call.
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Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 02:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
okay, so just being a little argumentative here, suppose the coach hadn't called a to. Do you still hustle over to P and follow this procedure? There's not any extra time to discuss it, but it was a wrong call.
Assuming that you've somehow understood (or strongly suspect) what your partner actually called, why would this be any different?
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Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 02:28am
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The difference here is that the partner knew what the call was, and knew why the calling official made it. Without the TO, the non-calling official would never really know (maybe after the game) what the ruling had been, and therefore wouldn't have known that it was made in error.
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Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 02:44am
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I would tell my partner what the rule was, but it would likely be discussed in the locker room. I am not going to try to change anything. Just like any out of bounds call all you should give is information. It is up to them to make a change. On a play like this he/she is the only person that saw this. Also depending on the line, this might not be a completely wrong call, but a bad choice of words. I would not change a travel that might be suspect just because I think my partner is wrong. I am definitely not changing this for the same reasons.

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Old Wed Jan 03, 2007, 08:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
On a play like this he/she is the only person that saw this. Also depending on the line, this might not be a completely wrong call, but a bad choice of words.
The official who told me this story was the one who made the wrong call. There was no misunderstanding or poor choice of words. He simply did not know then (he sure does now) that touching the line on a throw-in is not a violation. He saw the player step on the line, but not over the line. That is what he told the coach...and what he told his partner.
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