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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 30, 2014, 07:41pm
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Originally Posted by David Emerling View Post
Seriously - you've only seen a pitcher begin his delivery and not complete it (with no runners on base) only once in the past 20 years?
Yes (well -- not counting times that time had been called, or the batter "induced" the stoppage, etc.)
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 30, 2014, 09:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock View Post
So your call is not based on the rule, but by who is disadvantaged?
In your hypothetical situation, implicit was that you would NOT call this batter out. Am I mistaken?

You seem to suggest that the batter has, somehow, been unfairly deprived of the opportunity to tie the game. You said that the ball hit his bat but you didn't say where the ball went. If you ignore the fact that his foot was completely outside the batter's box and the ball goes fair and the tying run scores - then what?

What's the mechanic for that? It's your question!

Now this thread is off on a tangent of situational ethics. I didn't intend that. Mostly, I was just wondering if there was a regional propensity to not invoke a certain rule. Another rule in our area that is not enforced very strictly is the requirement for the batter to keep one foot in the batter's box. The only time it is invoked is if, by not having his foot in the batter's box, the game is delayed. And, it is usually preceded by a warning.

Last edited by David Emerling; Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 09:12pm.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 30, 2014, 09:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Emerling View Post
In your hypothetical situation, implicit was that you would NOT call this batter out. Am I mistaken?

You seem to suggest that the batter has, somehow, been unfairly deprived of the opportunity to tie the game. You said that the ball hit his bat but you didn't say where the ball went. If you ignore the fact that his foot was completely outside the batter's box and the ball goes fair and the tying run scores - then what?

What's the mechanic for that? It's your question!

Now this thread is off on a tangent of situational ethics. I didn't intend that. Mostly, I was just wondering if there was a regional propensity to not invoke a certain rule. Another rule in our area that is not enforced very strictly is the requirement for the batter to keep one foot in the batter's box. The only time it is invoked is if, by not having his foot in the batter's box, the game is delayed. And, it is usually preceded by a warning.
Haven't you answered your own question?
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 30, 2014, 10:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Emerling View Post
In your hypothetical situation, implicit was that you would NOT call this batter out. Am I mistaken?
No.

Quote:
You seem to suggest that the batter has, somehow, been unfairly deprived of the opportunity to tie the game.
Yes. Enforcing the rule (which, in this case, would entail countermanding the spirit and intent of the rule) would do just that.
Quote:
You said that the ball hit his bat but you didn't say where the ball went.
That's because it is irrelevant to the question I asked.
Quote:
If you ignore the fact that his foot was completely outside the batter's box and the ball goes fair and the tying run scores - then what?

What's the mechanic for that? It's your question!
Uh, point it fair. Then the next batter comes up.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 01, 2014, 06:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock View Post
Here's one for you: Championship game, bottom of the last, HT down one, bases loaded, two out. 90mph fastball gets away and tails in at the batter's head. He spins out of the box trying to save his life, and you are 100% certain one foot is on the ground entirely out of the box when the ball hits his bat. What mechanic are you using to end the game on an illegally batted ball?
Sorry, not interested in playing your little game of re-hashing scenario in a 3-4 year old thread, in lieu of answering a question related to the topic at hand.

Besides being apples/oranges, it will do nothing but become an argument about PBUC and how possible/impossible it is to track a 90mph pitch at a players head while seeing whether or not a foot was on the ground completely out of the box during contact with the bat.

Feel free, however to pursue this, I'm sure you will have takers.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 01, 2014, 06:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Emerling View Post
I was just wondering if there was a regional propensity to not invoke a certain rule.
Sorry, I didn't answer your question.

Around here, yes. The other night I had a pitcher step off with the wrong foot. He was in the windup and there were no runners. He stepped off because the batter wasn't in the box yet. The count remained 0-0.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 01, 2014, 07:15am
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Usually if the batter is not in the box, the pitcher cannot pitch unless told to do so. As such, stepping off or dropping his hands or some other action would not be a cause for a penalty.
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I have been umpiring so long that it was called Rounders when I started.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 01, 2014, 07:52am
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Originally Posted by charliej47 View Post
Usually if the batter is not in the box, the pitcher cannot pitch unless told to do so. As such, stepping off or dropping his hands or some other action would not be a cause for a penalty.
By (FED only) rule this is an illegal pitch and a ball.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 01, 2014, 07:59am
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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
If all the prison inmates are willing to accept "let us all out" as the correct result, who is the warden to say otherwise?
Since the warden is a "participant", my conditional is not met.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 01, 2014, 08:21am
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Usually if the batter is not in the box, I have my hand up and as such the ball is dead so there is no penalty.

If I do't have my hand up, then the ball is live and all rules apply.
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Charles Johnson Jr
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I have been umpiring so long that it was called Rounders when I started.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 01, 2014, 08:28am
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I can only remember once in the last 10 yrs where F1 stepped off with the wrong foot during a live ball(that I saw anyway). When this happened, we called a balk.

I try to be consistent in holding up my hand when the batter is not in the box and it looks like F1 might start to pitch.
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Charles Johnson Jr
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I have been umpiring so long that it was called Rounders when I started.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 01, 2014, 08:53pm
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I never put my hand up unless the ball is already dead. I put it up just before I put the ball back in play. That's it.

Last edited by dash_riprock; Thu May 01, 2014 at 08:55pm.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 02, 2014, 09:20am
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!

This is a perfect example of how threads go to sh!t.

We have an original post that isn't based on learning, education or fun. It is simply to prod!

Then we get drawn in to the truely poor umpires that post and post (kinda like if they shout maybe you'll listen) that draws in the better umpires on the board to try to save things.

Then the thread goes to crap.

I am not sure if there is any importance 'iffin' you call a "stop/start" at the FED level. Do as your group does.

Let's just move onto other more important things (as the original poster has done to through yet another STUPID play -- i.e. foot out of the box when contacting the ball).

Let's just move on . . . some of us don't have that much time left here on earth.

Tee
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 02, 2014, 12:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock View Post
I never put my hand up unless the ball is already dead. I put it up just before I put the ball back in play. That's it.
I do the same thing. I do not hold my hand up, even if the batter asks me to do so because that causes the ball to be dead. I don't say anything to the batter and they usually do not notice that I am not holding up my hand. High school pitchers never pitch the ball anyway. They wait. This is especially true with runners on base. The runners should not lose their liability to be picked off, nor should the pitcher lose the option to pick them off simply because the batter is digging in.

There is no need for the umpire to hold up his hand because, by rule, the pitcher has an obligation to not deliver the pitch until the batter is reasonably ready. A pitcher who delivers the ball while the batter is clearly not ready (i.e. head down and digging in) is violating a rule. There is no reason to make the ball dead in this situation. Pitchers should have the situational awareness not to pitch the ball when the batter is not ready. Nearly all of them do.
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