Illegal pitch/delay dead ball

[Gleighty]

Not sure this is relevant or not, but USSSA rule 8.08.E (amended September 2008), which addresses balks, indicates that the penalty shall be:

The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one (1) base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first (1st) on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise and all other runners advance at least one (1) base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

Would this also include and illegal pitch?

In a USSSA 12U baseball game, a pitcher dellivers an illegal pitch. Umpire signal dead ball, but he pitcher delivered the pitch. The batter hits the ball and reaches first base. Umpire indicated a this was a delay dead ball situation and allow the play to stand. Would this be a delay dead ball situation and the batter/runner be allowed to stay on first base?

[bob jenkins]

Was it really an Illegal Pitch (which has a specific definition in OBR -- and I assume that it's the same in USSSA), or was it a balk?

Play stands.

(btw, I merged your two posts so it's all in one thread)

[Gleighty]

There were no runners on, so I am assuming it was an illegal pitch. No deception intended. The pitcher's started, stopped, then started delivery. Umpire indicated illegal pitch with a dead ball signal and verbal call. Pitcher deliver the pitch that was hit and batter/runner reached first base. Umpire let the play stand. I felt this was the correct call. Coaches of the defensive team argued that it was dead because of the dead ball signal and the play went against them.

[frozenrope22]

I understand the ruling if the umpire just gave a delayed dead ball signal. ( Which I don't know what that looks like) But in the second post it was mentioned the umpire gave a verbal call. What was the verbal call? Wouldn't that change the situation if he yelled out "Dead Ball".

[rbmartin]

According to OBR 8.05(e) an illegal pitch is also balk.

PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

[Tim C]

Under OBR "start/stop" is not a balk with no runs on.

Now I am reading into this play that it was actually a "start/stop/start" done quickly.

If that happens I would have called "Time" and left my area quickly and NOTHING would then count.

T

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Under OBR "start/stop" is not a balk with no runs on.

Now I am reading into this play that it was actually a "start/stop/start" done quickly.

If that happens I would have called "Time" and left my area quickly and NOTHING would then count.

T

Agreed.

An Illegal Pitch is wither a quick pitch, or a pitch delivered while not in contact with the rubber.

So, I don't know what we really had, and, as usual, the rules don't often cover what happens when an umpire messes up.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by Gleighty

There were no runners on, so I am assuming it was an illegal pitch. No deception intended. The pitcher's started, stopped, then started delivery. Umpire indicated illegal pitch with a dead ball signal and verbal call. Pitcher deliver the pitch that was hit and batter/runner reached first base. Umpire let the play stand. I felt this was the correct call. Coaches of the defensive team argued that it was dead because of the dead ball signal and the play went against them.

I don't know USSSA but in Little League this would not be an illegal pitch because there are no runners on.

In Little League, if it were an illegal pitch such as a quick pitch with no runners on, the ruling would be as the umpire did.

It's just that starting, stopping and starting again, would not be an illegal pitch.

Rita

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Under OBR "start/stop" is not a balk with no runs on.

Now I am reading into this play that it was actually a "start/stop/start" done quickly.

If that happens I would have called "Time" and left my area quickly and NOTHING would then count.

T

I can't see it happening any other way.

Originally Posted by Gleighty

Umpire signal dead ball

What the hell is a dead ball signal?

Originally Posted by Gleighty

but he pitcher delivered the pitch. The batter hits the ball and reaches first base.

If the umpire called the ball dead, how can the pitch take place?
How can he put the batter anywhere?

Originally Posted by Gleighty

Umpire indicated a this was a delay dead ball situation and allow the play to stand.

The umpire needs to go back to school!

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I can't see it happening any other way.


What the hell is a dead ball signal?


If the umpire called the ball dead, how can the pitch take place?
How can he put the batter anywhere?


The umpire needs to go back to school!

Ozzy, the delayed dead ball signal is an arm straight out with fist closed.

It's used by softball umpires for illegal pitches and obstruction.

Rita

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Rita C

Ozzy, the delayed dead ball signal is an arm straight out with fist closed.

It's used by softball umpires for illegal pitches and obstruction.

Rita

Right, it's the same signal that FED wants us to use in HS (most of us do not us this). I wanted to know what the dead ball signal was that this umpire supposedly used.

[Gleighty]

Rule 8.01 (b) The Set Position. Set Position shall be indicated by the pitcher when he stands facing the batter with his pivot foot in contact with, and his other foot in front of, the pitcher’s plate, holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a complete stop. From such Set Position he may deliver the ball to the batter, throw to a base or step backward off the pitcher’s plate with his pivot foot. Before assuming Set Position, the pitcher may elect to make any natural preliminary motion such as that known as “the stretch.” But if he so elects, he shall come to Set Position before delivering the ball to the batter. After assuming Set Position, any natural motion associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to
the pitch without alteration or interruption.

Rule 8.01 (d) If the pitcher makes an illegal pitch with the bases unoccupied, it shall be called a ball unless the batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter or otherwise.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Gleighty

Rule 8.01 (d) If the pitcher makes an illegal pitch with the bases unoccupied, it shall be called a ball unless the batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter or otherwise.

"started, stopped, then started delivery" (from your post #3 in this thread) is not an OBR Illegal Pitch

[Gleighty]

What would it be? If the pitch is not delivered legally, by rule 8.01 b, he did not.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Gleighty

What would it be? If the pitch is not delivered legally, by rule 8.01 b, he did not.

See 2.00 Illegal Pitch (Or maybe it's PItch, Illegal)