illegal ball... illegal pitch?

[[email protected]]

Situation in my son's 13-14 year old Pony baseball this afternoon: Several pitches by home-team thrown to batter, who grounds out to first. HOME TEAM manager asks to examine the ball after the play. Ball is found to be illegal. Apparently it had been returned to the field when a legal ball had gone out of play. Visiting manager suggests that the batter should return to bat and the out should not stand. Umpire says it stands. Claimed that since the HOME Manager called it to his attention, he should not penalize that team. I said "baloney". The best I can find in the rule book is that a ball illegally altered should be an illegal pitch, and should be counted as a ball, if at-bat manager does not wish for the result of the play to remain. (No benefit to him in this case). Questions are: 1. Shouldn't the umpire negate the play, and add a "ball" to the count?
Secondly, if, according to the rules, the at-bat manager has the option to allow the play to stand if it is to his advantage, does that mean that if the pitcher threw a tennis ball (or a Spaldeen or Pensie-Pinkie!) and the batter hit it over the fence, the home run would count? I realize this would be very unlikely, but..... the question is, if an illegal ball is thrown (not an illegally ALTERED ball), and is driven for a hit, shouldn't the hit be negated as an illegal pitch? thanks

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by [email protected]
Situation in my son's 13-14 year old Pony baseball this afternoon: Several pitches by home-team thrown to batter, who grounds out to first. HOME TEAM manager asks to examine the ball after the play. Ball is found to be illegal. Apparently it had been returned to the field when a legal ball had gone out of play. Visiting manager suggests that the batter should return to bat and the out should not stand. Umpire says it stands. Claimed that since the HOME Manager called it to his attention, he should not penalize that team. I said "baloney". The best I can find in the rule book is that a ball illegally altered should be an illegal pitch, and should be counted as a ball, if at-bat manager does not wish for the result of the play to remain. (No benefit to him in this case). Questions are: 1. Shouldn't the umpire negate the play, and add a "ball" to the count?
Secondly, if, according to the rules, the at-bat manager has the option to allow the play to stand if it is to his advantage, does that mean that if the pitcher threw a tennis ball (or a Spaldeen or Pensie-Pinkie!) and the batter hit it over the fence, the home run would count? I realize this would be very unlikely, but..... the question is, if an illegal ball is thrown (not an illegally ALTERED ball), and is driven for a hit, shouldn't the hit be negated as an illegal pitch? thanks

IT's not covered in the book, so it's 9.01(c).

In my opinion -- if the 13-14 yr.-old pitcher could have reasonably known that it was an illegal ball (your tennis ball / spaldeen example), then I'd treat it as an illegal pitch.

If the ball was just vinyl covered, instead of leather, or said "Little League" on it instead of "Pony", or .... then I'd just play on.

[TwoBits]

Illegal in what way? Could the preceding hit made it illegal?

[[email protected]]

For clarification, the ball was a soft-baseball, the type that t-ball kids, or 9-10 year olds use.

[jicecone]

"The best I can find in the rule book is that a ball illegally altered should be an illegal pitch,"

Illegally altered implies that someone, (most likly the pitcher)was aware that they started out with a good ball, then altered it. It's kind of obvious in this case that the pitcher didn't even realize that he was throwing the wrong ball. I agree, Play on and don't count that at bat for for your player. Mistakes Happen.

[chris s]

Originally posted by [email protected]
For clarification, the ball was a soft-baseball, the type that t-ball kids, or 9-10 year olds use.

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My 8 year old plays "pinto" with a real PONY hardball(R100) or such, all our Mustang teams do as well. This is a bad case of ump not getting the ball back to him, such as parent picking up wrong ball that is sitting in the vicinity of OOP ball. NOW, a 13-14 should know that ball was not legal for use! Now being no rule ref, use the good ol 9.01c. I would probabaly call it no pitch, return any runners, cancel any outs and do it over. BUT, if F1 was laughing his *** off after the pitch and dull thud hit, A little conversation with him and skipper might be in order........JMHO