Help on rules interpretation

[freejoe69]

High-school JV game with veteran officials. One out, runner on second base. Batter lines out to centerfield, runner gets caught up the line on his way to third. Throw from CF is low and off line to second base. 2B leaves bag, traps ball and secures it, then takes ball out of his glove (not sure why), and comes back to tag the bag with his glove, beating the runner. Base umpire called runner safe and said that glove was not an extension of the baseball. I looked this situation up on some other umpire sites and saw interpretations that were 180 degrees apart. Too late now, obviously, but I'm interested to know. Citations, please.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by freejoe69

High-school JV game with veteran officials. One out, runner on second base. Batter lines out to centerfield, runner gets caught up the line on his way to third. Throw from CF is low and off line to second base. 2B leaves bag, traps ball and secures it, then takes ball out of his glove (not sure why), and comes back to tag the bag with his glove, beating the runner. Base umpire called runner safe and said that glove was not an extension of the baseball. I looked this situation up on some other umpire sites and saw interpretations that were 180 degrees apart. Too late now, obviously, but I'm interested to know. Citations, please.

"Veterans" working JV huh?

As long as the glove was properly worn, and the ball firmly secured in his hand, the runner should be out on appeal.

I'm not going to look it up, but it's the same logic at the first baseman's foot tagging 1B when the batter-runner grounds out to F6.

Those "veteran" umpires, if this story is exactly as you describe it, need to spend some time in the rule book and quit making up rules.

[freejoe69]

Yup. I should qualify--veteran HS varsity-level officials. Your thoughts on the logic of it are exactly as mine were, but he sold the call and it was snowing at the time, so I didn't pursue it.

[bluehair]

Citation: Fed 8-4-2(i)

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by bluehair

Citation: Fed 8-4-2(i)

Thanks Bluehair

[jicecone]

Well if it is snowing, and your a veteran umpire and make a call of safe and I am your assignor, your next game is Freshmen Ball.

[Fed2You]

In the OP, is the runner trying to get back to the bag because he didn't tag up, thus making it a force out?

Because on a play which requires the runner to be tagged, touching a runner with the glove and the ball in the other hand does not lead to an out. The ball must be in the glove if the glove is used to tag him.

From NFHS Rules By Topic (pg 85) "The tag must include the ball. If the ball isn't in the glove, the glove touching the runner has no effect."

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Fed2You

In the OP, is the runner trying to get back to the bag because he didn't tag up, thus making it a force out?

Because on a play which requires the runner to be tagged, touching a runner with the glove and the ball in the other hand does not lead to an out. The ball must be in the glove if the glove is used to tag him.

From NFHS Rules By Topic (pg 85) "The tag must include the ball. If the ball isn't in the glove, the glove touching the runner has no effect."

Repeat after me 10 times:

It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out

[Publius]

Originally Posted by freejoe69

...it was snowing at the time, so I didn't pursue it.

Veteran coach--or a quick study.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Fed2You

In the OP, is the runner trying to get back to the bag because he didn't tag up, thus making it a force out?

Please explain one scenario (any one will do) in baseball where a runner can be forced back to a bag.

(Hint: There are none.)

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by Rich

Please explain one scenario (any one will do) in baseball where a runner can be forced back to a bag.

(Hint: There are none.)

It's stuff like that is why this forum doesn't hold water anymore...think about it. He more that likely knows the right answer, but not the terminology.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Repeat after me 10 times:

It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out

after me ten times..................................

Now what do I do, coach?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

It's stuff like that is why this forum doesn't hold water anymore...think about it. He more that likely knows the right answer, but not the terminology.

Then he learned something. Isn't that why this place is here?

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Repeat after me 10 times:

It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out
It is not a Force Out

Best post of the thread.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Fed2You

In the OP, is the runner trying to get back to the bag because he didn't tag up, thus making it a force out?

Because on a play which requires the runner to be tagged, touching a runner with the glove and the ball in the other hand does not lead to an out. The ball must be in the glove if the glove is used to tag him.

From NFHS Rules By Topic (pg 85) "The tag must include the ball. If the ball isn't in the glove, the glove touching the runner has no effect."

This play (an appeal, not a force) does not require that the runner be tagged. The base can be tagged. When tagging a base the ball has to be held securely in the hand or glove and the base tagged with the body (includes gloves, shoes, hair, uniform, etc.)