Pirates/Braves ending

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

You can't tell at ALL from that angle....

Really? You don't see the pants leg move on the tag?

[Rich]

Personally, I don't care about this play at all, with the exception that eliminating the expected call has finally reached this level -- where a MLB umpire is willing to make a "best guess" on a call where he got straight lined a bit rather than take all the pieces of evidence in front of him and realize that the ball beat the runner by a mile and missing an actual tag here is 10000000000x worse than calling R3 out on a swipe tag that *might* have missed.

How many of us would've given a quick little fist pump on our field and gone on to the next inning and not thought twice about it?

[JRutledge]

The video you show Rich is a little distorted and does not completely confirm what I am looking for, but then again that is why I said I see why the umpire called the play the way he did. I would rather see that angle in HD to see if there was a touch. That was never the angle I saw in the highlight package that was not on ESPN. The centerfield angle looked like a miss when you look for any type of contact.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Personally, I don't care about this play at all, with the exception that eliminating the expected call has finally reached this level -- where a MLB umpire is willing to make a "best guess" on a call where he got straight lined a bit rather than take all the pieces of evidence in front of him and realize that the ball beat the runner by a mile and missing an actual tag here is 10000000000x worse than calling R3 out on a swipe tag that *might* have missed.

How many of us would've given a quick little fist pump on our field and gone on to the next inning and not thought twice about it?

I do not totally disagree with you, but we do not have video replay like they do. No one could dispute that call realistically because if there was a tag or miss, that took place with less than an inch. But when have the scrutiny those guys have, the expected call can get you in trouble. And how much the throw beat him is really irrelevant anyway. It is about the tag or not. We have seen many throws beat runners only to see better evidence than this that they missed the tag. I think this umpire was probably thinking he did not want to end the game on an "expected call."

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not totally disagree with you, but we do not have video replay like they do. No one could dispute that call realistically because if there was a tag or miss, that took place with less than an inch. But when have the scrutiny those guys have, the expected call can get you in trouble. And how much the throw beat him is really irrelevant anyway. It is about the tag or not. We have seen many throws beat runners only to see better evidence than this that they missed the tag. I think this umpire was probably thinking he did not want to end the game on an "expected call."

Peace

He wouldn't have ended the game -- that's the point -- it would've gone on to the 20th inning. Instead....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

He wouldn't have ended the game -- that's the point -- it would've gone on to the 20th inning. Instead....

I do not think at the time he is worried about that fact the game ended. We have to be able to make the tough call even if that call appears wrong at the time to others.

Peace

[prosec34]

Shouldn't the ump have positioned himself more towards the third-base line extended? I don't bother with it at the high school level b/c there's not that many sweep tags, but in MLB that happens a lot.

Personally, I'd have called him out. Unless I'm fairly convinced the tag whiffed the runner, I'll give the fielder the benefit of the doubt. I don't see how this ump could've ruled that there definitely wasn't a tag in real time.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Stills:

You Be the Judge: Worst Call at Home Plate Ever At End of Pirates-Braves Game?

Said Meals after the game:
“I saw the tag, but he looked like he oléd him and I called him safe for that. I looked at the replays and it appeared he might have got him on the shin area. I’m guessing he might have got him, but when I was out there when it happened I didn’t see a tag."

Jerry needed to move to the right. The swipe tag surprised him.

I can't believe so many people are defending this. Meals calls the runner out, they go to the 20th inning and there's not a single person that says anything. Instead he guesses, incorrectly, and ends a Major League Baseball game.

I was only defending it because EVERY angle I had seen showed a missed tag. None of the ESPN or MLB angles showed what you are showing here. Seeing this post, though, I agree he was out.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I was only defending it because EVERY angle I had seen showed a missed tag. None of the ESPN or MLB angles showed what you are showing here. Seeing this post, though, I agree he was out.

I had the benefit of watching the ROOT-Pittsburgh feed live in HD as it happened. I *wanted* Meals to be right. Until I saw that one angle and then, well, I felt bad for him.

But I still say this is a result of all the HD angles forcing umpires to try to be this fine on calls like this. The human eye and our positioning can't always adjust quickly enough and calling runners like this out had served us and the game well for a long time. Not anymore. So we get results like this.

I'll need to tune in tonight to see how it goes with Meals working third in front of the Pirates dugout.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by prosec34

Shouldn't the ump have positioned himself more towards the third-base line extended? I don't bother with it at the high school level b/c there's not that many sweep tags, but in MLB that happens a lot.

Personally, I'd have called him out. Unless I'm fairly convinced the tag whiffed the runner, I'll give the fielder the benefit of the doubt. I don't see how this ump could've ruled that there definitely wasn't a tag in real time.

As it turned out, yes.

Maybe he thought it would be a collision, since the ball was there so far in advance.

In HS, swipe tags are more common, because of the malicious contact rule.

[kylejt]

Honestly, I thought is was a heck of a call.

On a swipe tag we're looking for glove movement. Something to indicate a tag is made. That didn't happen. And unless he heard some sort of "tick!" if the mitt hitting something, that's the right call to make.

Now, watching his body language after the call, he then thinks he got it wrong. He's second guessing himself as he's walking off the field.

[APG]

For all the calamity I've heard about the call, it's not that bad of a missed called...if we can even say that with 100 percent certainty.

[jdmara]

I would like to see the video that shows proof that he was tagged. I believe that most of us would call the out but this is a potentially spectacular call.

I usually don't pay much attention to the pitch trackers but I'm curious about this very lengthy game. Do they have trackers that break it down this game and what the "correct ball/strike percentage" was?

-Josh

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jdmara

I would like to see the video that shows proof that he was tagged. I believe that most of us would call the out but this is a potentially spectacular call.

I usually don't pay much attention to the pitch trackers but I'm curious about this very lengthy game. Do they have trackers that break it down this game and what the "correct ball/strike percentage" was?

-Josh

Potentially spectacular? Making this call is the equivalent of saying that a piece of thread did not touch the needle as it passed through the eye.

Maybe I am just too old school (I never thought I'd say that), but to me, this is, without a doubt, picking up the poop-covered end of the stick for no good reason. There's one thing to have courage to make the right call, but when the ball beats the runner by *this much*, the call had better be 100% defensibly right. In other words, the question that needs to be asked here is: Prove to me he missed the tag. I agree with the announcers (another first) -- unless there's clear daylight, I'm calling the runner out.

[zm1283]

The funniest part of this might be the fanboy reaction in the comment sections of these websites:

I'm not even a Pirates fan, but when you see something like this, you wonder what has happened to the standards for umpires in our game today. What may be the worst thing is that the commissioner COULD do something about this kind of injustice but he refuses to. This is cowardly but it's the way it is. We the People are continuously victimized by injustices of this kind, but when they happen on a ballfield they really stick out and remind us we're all at the whim of fate. The only difference is that here we have something that could be done about it but Bud Selig is chosing the coward's way out by defaulting on the decision to initiate instant replay.

It has gotten to the point where people look for anything to find fault in umpires, right or wrong. They're supposed to take any and all bullsh*t from the dugout on balls/strikes because "No one else knew they were saying anything". They're supposed to let players slam equipment because they were just "Showing emotion". They're not supposed to make otherwise correct calls because they're "Inserting themselves in the game". They're not supposed to play rodeo clown because they're "unapproachable". (Joe West/Francona or West/Gardenhire this year).

These idiots don't take into account all the tough calls that they get right in MLB every day. It's all about players being victimized because there isn't instant replay. Nevermind the fact that instant replay can't fix half of this stuff (Changing out calls to safe, foul to fair, etc). Not to mention instant replay is inconclusive because a lot of the time, like this play in question, you can't even tell for certain after watching every replay available.

People (fans, media) have no idea that umpiring now is as good as it has ever been. Contrary to their pissing and moaning, umpires now are MUCH more approachable than even 15-20 years ago. How often do you see them going "old school" on a manager nowadays?