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Old Fri Aug 31, 2007, 06:53am
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Reds vs. Pirates..appeal play

Runners on 2nd & 3rd. 2 outs. Batter lines clean single to left. R3 (Griffey Jr.) easily scores. R2(Dunn) also scores easily. Following the play Pittsburgh appeals that R2 (Dunn) had missed 3rd base . 3rd base Ump calls out (replays were inconclusive but to the umps credit he was right on the play looking at the bag as the runner passed so I assume the call was correct).

After a brief conference, not only did they wipe Dunns run off the board, they removed Griffey's run as well.

The batter didn't even get credit for a base hit. I think officially it went as a Fielders' Choice.

I don't know if it mattered but Griffey had not crossed the plate by the time that Dunn passed (apparently without touching) 3rd base.

a) Could someone explain why the lead runner did not count.

b) Had the lead runner crossed the plate first, would it have made a difference?
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Old Fri Aug 31, 2007, 07:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbmartin
Runners on 2nd & 3rd. 2 outs. Batter lines clean single to left. R3 (Griffey Jr.) easily scores. R2(Dunn) also scores easily. Following the play Pittsburgh appeals that R2 (Dunn) had missed 3rd base . 3rd base Ump calls out (replays were inconclusive but to the umps credit he was right on the play looking at the bag as the runner passed so I assume the call was correct).

After a brief conference, not only did they wipe Dunns run off the board, they removed Griffey's run as well.

The batter didn't even get credit for a base hit. I think officially it went as a Fielders' Choice.

I don't know if it mattered but Griffey had not crossed the plate by the time that Dunn passed (apparently without touching) 3rd base.

a) Could someone explain why the lead runner did not count.

b) Had the lead runner crossed the plate first, would it have made a difference?
If what you posted is true, this is a huge blunder. R2 missing third, since not forced, is a time play. So the appeal would have to be executed before R3 legally scored, which would be impossible.

I just checked ESPN.com. The bases were actually loaded, so the appeal is a force play. No runs score.

Last edited by Rich; Fri Aug 31, 2007 at 07:03am.
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Old Fri Aug 31, 2007, 07:36pm
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I was watching the game and- as a Reds fan- hated to say it but this was the right call, wiping both runs off the board.

The bases were indeed loaded. With two out, Griffey was at third, Dunn on second, and Hattenberg has just been walked to load 'em up.

The Red's manager argued, delaying the game for a good five minutes. He, the plate umpire and third base umpire had a lengthy conference, which seemed rather amicable. I was surprised they let it go on that long. Somewhere in this sequence the plate umpire went to the dugout and used the phone to call "upstairs". I would have liked to hear that conversation!

The manager finally returned to the dugout then, before a pitch could be thrown, popped out again. He seemed to be filing a protest at that point, but there was no mention of that on the air or in subsequent news accounts.

The announcers, needless to say, butchered the explanation of the call. After several minutes of fumbling for an answer, they concluded that it must have been a "timing play", where Dunn's miss of third happened before Griffey touched the plate, thus negating his run.

Today's account in our local paper had it right- the appealed miss was considered a force out and, being the third out, no runs could score- and even included a reference to the proper MLB rule, 7.12.

Last edited by BretMan; Fri Aug 31, 2007 at 07:44pm.
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Old Fri Aug 31, 2007, 09:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BretMan
After several minutes of fumbling for an answer, they concluded that it must have been a "timing play", where Dunn's miss of third happened before Griffey touched the plate, thus negating his run.
Wow. I think the space-time continuum may have warped when they tried that as an explanation.
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Old Sat Sep 01, 2007, 02:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BretMan
I was watching the game and- as a Reds fan- hated to say it but this was the right call, wiping both runs off the board.

The bases were indeed loaded. With two out, Griffey was at third, Dunn on second, and Hattenberg has just been walked to load 'em up.

The Red's manager argued, delaying the game for a good five minutes. He, the plate umpire and third base umpire had a lengthy conference, which seemed rather amicable. I was surprised they let it go on that long. Somewhere in this sequence the plate umpire went to the dugout and used the phone to call "upstairs". I would have liked to hear that conversation!

The manager finally returned to the dugout then, before a pitch could be thrown, popped out again. He seemed to be filing a protest at that point, but there was no mention of that on the air or in subsequent news accounts.

The announcers, needless to say, butchered the explanation of the call. After several minutes of fumbling for an answer, they concluded that it must have been a "timing play", where Dunn's miss of third happened before Griffey touched the plate, thus negating his run.

Today's account in our local paper had it right- the appealed miss was considered a force out and, being the third out, no runs could score- and even included a reference to the proper MLB rule, 7.12.
Thx for th info.
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