Pirates/Braves ending

[MikeStrybel]

The call is what the call is...what Jerry thought he saw happen. Pirate reaction was expected and they filed a formal complaint today.

Now, here is what is really awful. From ESPN.com

"Meanwhile, the daughter of Meals, Laci, confirmed that Meals' family has been harassed since the controversial call, ESPN.com's Amy K. Nelson reports. She declined to talk further or answer any other questions. The specifics of that harassment are unknown.

An Internet search of the Meals' home phone number showed at least two message boards posted their home address and telephone number last night."

Meals just turned 50, so his kids may still be school age and at home. We all mess up, but few of us become targets like this. When an umpire's family is threatened and harrassed, lines have been crossed.

Buster Olney is proposing a fifth umpire (again) stationed in a replay booth. If we keep seeing more calls like this, it may not be long before some form of replay is enacted. There are simply too many dollars riding on the calls.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Buster Olney is proposing a fifth umpire (again) stationed in a replay booth. If we keep seeing more calls like this, it may not be long before some form of replay is enacted. There are simply too many dollars riding on the calls.

Maybe, but if this was the NFL model where you need conclusive evidence to turnover the call, this call would have been very hard to overturn. And the problem with baseball is that there are not always great angles to get plays right. So you can have replay, but many of these close plays will not change because of the limitations of the angles. And the only reason that people think this was missed is because of the "expected" call scenario rather than what really happened.

Peace

[gordon30307]

My toughest call (at least for me) is a swipe tag especially when the play is going away from me. From what I can see the swipe tag seemed to get his leg. Both teams expected an out. When you go against the expected call you better be 100% right. If you're not sure or didn't get a good look go with the expected call This is just my opinion. Meals from what I read didn't seem so confident of his call. Hey if he kicked it he kicked it we've all missed calls and life goes on. Frankly I wouldn't blame him if he missed it he had to be exhausted what with him being on his feet for 6+ hours and focusing on every pitch.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Maybe, but if this was the NFL model where you need conclusive evidence to turnover the call, this call would have been very hard to overturn. And the problem with baseball is that there are not always great angles to get plays right. So you can have replay, but many of these close plays will not change because of the limitations of the angles. And the only reason that people think this was missed is because of the "expected" call scenario rather than what really happened.

Peace

The tag can be seen just fine. RichMSN provided a link here and there are plenty others on CNN, ESPN, MSNBC, YouTube and on TV (QuickPitch had a couple great looks at the out) that are as conclusive. Out.

Bring on replay for MLB already.

[MD Longhorn]

Wrong. Every replay that was being shown last night - both on ESPN highlights and on MLB.com - CLEARLY showed the tag missing the runner. Multiple angles at multiple speeds. It was nearly half a day later before anyone produced a video that began convincing the readers here of the missed call. If all the umpires had were the ESPN replays to deal with at the game, this would not have been overturned.

Imagine the outrage then! "How can you miss this call with replay?!?!?!"

[jwwashburn]

The replays clearly showed a missed tag....when the tag was not missed? HUH?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

The replays clearly showed a missed tag....when the tag was not missed? HUH?

Yes... did you see any of these replays? There is obvious air between glove and player from every angle that was immediately available - there was a singular angle from foul right field that probably showed the moment of the tag best, but that tag was blocked by the catcher's leg.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Imagine the outrage then! "How can you miss this call with replay?!?!?!"

Exactly.

Peace

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Wrong. Every replay that was being shown last night - both on ESPN highlights and on MLB.com - CLEARLY showed the tag missing the runner. Multiple angles at multiple speeds. It was nearly half a day later before anyone produced a video that began convincing the readers here of the missed call. If all the umpires had were the ESPN replays to deal with at the game, this would not have been overturned.

Imagine the outrage then! "How can you miss this call with replay?!?!?!"

Joe Torre, an executive with MLB baseball disagrees with your assessment. His quote regarding the missed out is available online and has been shown numerous times on ESPN, CNN, and multiple local stations.

Oh, the umpire who made the call said that after seeing the replay, the runner was tagged on the shin. That sounds pretty definitive, but then again you know more than two MLB guys. LOL!

[MikeStrybel]

It's pretty funny that some whine about the what people would say if we had MLB instant replay and the call was still missed.

I imagine that it would be the same as what happens in the NFL, NCAA football, NBA and NHL. Some will keep whining about how their team was robbed while others will applaud the second look.

The fact that technology is there to assist in theseMLB games but ignored is silly.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Joe Torre, an executive with MLB baseball disagrees with your assessment. His quote regarding the missed out is available online and has been shown numerous times on ESPN, CNN, and multiple local stations.

Oh, the umpire who made the call said that after seeing the replay, the runner was tagged on the shin. That sounds pretty definitive, but then again you know more than two MLB guys. LOL!

Who cares what Joe Torre says? Isn't it funny that all these "executives" are usually former managers or general managers who wouldn't know anything about umpiring if it bit them on the a$$?

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Who cares what Joe Torre says? Isn't it funny that all these "executives" are usually former managers or general managers who wouldn't know anything about umpiring if it bit them on the a$$?

MLB executives who are former players and managers are much better suited to offer opinions about the game than those from the outside (very few of them and for good reason). I'm pretty sure that MLB values his opinion more than say, a Wisconsin based, amateur umpire on an online forum. So, to answer your first question, MLB does. And for your second, no, it isn't funny because your assertion isn't true. This isn't about umpiring mechanics, it regards a bad call and the need for review of such important decisions. Torre did not comment about Meals being out of position or his training, he spoke on what he and the MLB front office saw as a missed call in a critical situation. End of story.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Joe Torre, an executive with MLB baseball disagrees with your assessment. His quote regarding the missed out is available online and has been shown numerous times on ESPN, CNN, and multiple local stations.

Oh, the umpire who made the call said that after seeing the replay, the runner was tagged on the shin. That sounds pretty definitive, but then again you know more than two MLB guys. LOL!

Just like Rich said, who gives a damn what Torre or any executive says that is trying to cover PR. If that was the case than there will never be IR when the Commissioner says he is not for it. And if you listen to Selig as well he makes it clear that if there is such a system it will be very limited. It might not involve plays like this that we are talking about.

And who cares what the umpire says now? I think he made that comment to appease people, because if this took place during the game and there was IR, I doubt the result would have changed if you needed conclusive evidence to change a call. Or there would have been a debate if that was a good change. The media tends to take these situations and complain when they do not get the result. There are many times in other sports when the IR did not overturn a call and the media went crazy. And in those sports I think it will be a lot easier to change calls than baseball will ever be able to do at least that is the case with out and safe calls.

Peace

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Just like Rich said, who gives a damn what Torre or any executive says that is trying to cover PR. If that was the case than there will never be IR when the Commissioner says he is not for it. And if you listen to Selig as well he makes it clear that if there is such a system it will be very limited. It might not involve plays like this that we are talking about.

And who cares what the umpire says now? I think he made that comment to appease people, because if this took place during the game and there was IR, I doubt the result would have changed if you needed conclusive evidence to change a call. Or there would have been a debate if that was a good change. The media tends to take these situations and complain when they do not get the result. There are many times in other sports when the IR did not overturn a call and the media went crazy. And in those sports I think it will be a lot easier to change calls than baseball will ever be able to do at least that is the case with out and safe calls.

Peace

Jeff,
Stop. Your posts are endlessly convoluted.

I have never stated that instant replay will fix all bad calls in baseball. No one expected it in professional football, basketball, hockey or soccer. About a decade ago some umpires complained about the huddles they saw taking place on NCAA and MiLB fields. When MLB adopted the "let's work to get the call right" attitude, some whined that the human element was going away from the game. Now, we see the LWTGTCR mentality prevalent on amateur fields across America. The game didn't suffer. It improved.

Meals admitted his mistake because it was very public and the MLB office expects professional demeanor from WUA members. I respect Meals immensely for owning up to it. I deplore those who harassed his family and the barstool jockeys who believe they could have done a better job that night. He is a terrific umpire who just showed the world that he is human. Meals did what many here would never do, admit a shortcoming. MLB will think far more of him for doing that rather than acting headstrong about a bad call.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

The tag can be seen just fine. RichMSN provided a link here and there are plenty others on CNN, ESPN, MSNBC, YouTube and on TV (QuickPitch had a couple great looks at the out) that are as conclusive. Out.

Bring on replay for MLB already.

I disagree that the replays shows a definitive tag. There was no definitive angle and why if they had to use the "conclusive" model that other sports use then that would have been iffy. The best argument the media said was "The throw beat him." Well that is not a very good standard because throws beat runners all the time on tag plays and the fielder does not make the tag.

And forget this play; there are a lot of plays that show no angle. I remember about a week ago there was a play with a foul ball/fair ball play with the White Sox and there was no angle that could be conclusive. Of course we could have an opinion, but not where anything could be said one way or the other. That is the problem if they go to replay in MLB. The angles are not going to be good in many ball parks to change anything IMO.

Peace