Pirates/Braves ending

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Pittsburgh Pirates: Did Jerry Meals Make the Worst Call in Recent Memory? | Bleacher Report

The embedded YouTube video -- go to 4:45 of the video, watch in fullscreen. Here's the look of the glove getting the leg. Let me try this. Immediately go to Full Screen:

‪Worst call in MLB history Pirates vs. Braves 2011‬‏ - YouTube

You can't tell at ALL from that angle....

[Rich]

Stills:

You Be the Judge: Worst Call at Home Plate Ever At End of Pirates-Braves Game?

Said Meals after the game:
“I saw the tag, but he looked like he oléd him and I called him safe for that. I looked at the replays and it appeared he might have got him on the shin area. I’m guessing he might have got him, but when I was out there when it happened I didn’t see a tag."

Jerry needed to move to the right. The swipe tag surprised him.

I can't believe so many people are defending this. Meals calls the runner out, they go to the 20th inning and there's not a single person that says anything. Instead he guesses, incorrectly, and ends a Major League Baseball game.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Stills:

You Be the Judge: Worst Call at Home Plate Ever At End of Pirates-Braves Game?

Said Meals after the game:
“I saw the tag, but he looked like he oléd him and I called him safe for that. I looked at the replays and it appeared he might have got him on the shin area. I’m guessing he might have got him, but when I was out there when it happened I didn’t see a tag."

Jerry needed to move to the right. The swipe tag surprised him.

I can't believe so many people are defending this. Meals calls the runner out, they go to the 20th inning and there's not a single person that says anything. Instead he guesses, incorrectly, and ends a Major League Baseball game.

I was only defending it because EVERY angle I had seen showed a missed tag. None of the ESPN or MLB angles showed what you are showing here. Seeing this post, though, I agree he was out.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I was only defending it because EVERY angle I had seen showed a missed tag. None of the ESPN or MLB angles showed what you are showing here. Seeing this post, though, I agree he was out.

I had the benefit of watching the ROOT-Pittsburgh feed live in HD as it happened. I *wanted* Meals to be right. Until I saw that one angle and then, well, I felt bad for him.

But I still say this is a result of all the HD angles forcing umpires to try to be this fine on calls like this. The human eye and our positioning can't always adjust quickly enough and calling runners like this out had served us and the game well for a long time. Not anymore. So we get results like this.

I'll need to tune in tonight to see how it goes with Meals working third in front of the Pirates dugout.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

You can't tell at ALL from that angle....

Really? You don't see the pants leg move on the tag?

[Rich]

Personally, I don't care about this play at all, with the exception that eliminating the expected call has finally reached this level -- where a MLB umpire is willing to make a "best guess" on a call where he got straight lined a bit rather than take all the pieces of evidence in front of him and realize that the ball beat the runner by a mile and missing an actual tag here is 10000000000x worse than calling R3 out on a swipe tag that *might* have missed.

How many of us would've given a quick little fist pump on our field and gone on to the next inning and not thought twice about it?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Personally, I don't care about this play at all, with the exception that eliminating the expected call has finally reached this level -- where a MLB umpire is willing to make a "best guess" on a call where he got straight lined a bit rather than take all the pieces of evidence in front of him and realize that the ball beat the runner by a mile and missing an actual tag here is 10000000000x worse than calling R3 out on a swipe tag that *might* have missed.

How many of us would've given a quick little fist pump on our field and gone on to the next inning and not thought twice about it?

I do not totally disagree with you, but we do not have video replay like they do. No one could dispute that call realistically because if there was a tag or miss, that took place with less than an inch. But when have the scrutiny those guys have, the expected call can get you in trouble. And how much the throw beat him is really irrelevant anyway. It is about the tag or not. We have seen many throws beat runners only to see better evidence than this that they missed the tag. I think this umpire was probably thinking he did not want to end the game on an "expected call."

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not totally disagree with you, but we do not have video replay like they do. No one could dispute that call realistically because if there was a tag or miss, that took place with less than an inch. But when have the scrutiny those guys have, the expected call can get you in trouble. And how much the throw beat him is really irrelevant anyway. It is about the tag or not. We have seen many throws beat runners only to see better evidence than this that they missed the tag. I think this umpire was probably thinking he did not want to end the game on an "expected call."

Peace

He wouldn't have ended the game -- that's the point -- it would've gone on to the 20th inning. Instead....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

He wouldn't have ended the game -- that's the point -- it would've gone on to the 20th inning. Instead....

I do not think at the time he is worried about that fact the game ended. We have to be able to make the tough call even if that call appears wrong at the time to others.

Peace

[prosec34]

Shouldn't the ump have positioned himself more towards the third-base line extended? I don't bother with it at the high school level b/c there's not that many sweep tags, but in MLB that happens a lot.

Personally, I'd have called him out. Unless I'm fairly convinced the tag whiffed the runner, I'll give the fielder the benefit of the doubt. I don't see how this ump could've ruled that there definitely wasn't a tag in real time.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Personally, I don't care about this play at all, with the exception that eliminating the expected call has finally reached this level

Rich IMO, the aforementioned is the crux of the issue.

"back in the day" whether the runner was actually tagged or not was irrelevant. The ball beat the runner by a good margin and the call would have been out and for the most part no one would have said anything.

Now we have a zillion angles and the "neighborhood play" along with the expected call are now "out the window"

IMO, the MLB umpires are looking for "too much evidence" since they know a game ended play or any play for that matter will be reviewed a zillion times.

Pretty soon we will not have to wait for MLB / The Players union or anyone else for that matter to push for IR. The umpires themselves will push for it so they do not have to take all the flak they are presently taking.

Pete Booth

[MikeStrybel]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;775489]

Rich IMO, the aforementioned is the crux of the issue.

"back in the day" whether the runner was actually tagged or not was irrelevant. The ball beat the runner by a good margin and the call would have been out and for the most part no one would have said anything.

Now we have a zillion angles and the "neighborhood play" along with the expected call are now "out the window"

IMO, the MLB umpires are looking for "too much evidence" since they know a game ended play or any play for that matter will be reviewed a zillion times.

Pretty soon we will not have to wait for MLB / The Players union or anyone else for that matter to push for IR. The umpires themselves will push for it so they do not have to take all the flak they are presently taking.

Pete Booth

Pete,
Don't get them started on the 'expected call' debate. Sheesh!

Mike

[MikeStrybel]

The call is what the call is...what Jerry thought he saw happen. Pirate reaction was expected and they filed a formal complaint today.

Now, here is what is really awful. From ESPN.com

"Meanwhile, the daughter of Meals, Laci, confirmed that Meals' family has been harassed since the controversial call, ESPN.com's Amy K. Nelson reports. She declined to talk further or answer any other questions. The specifics of that harassment are unknown.

An Internet search of the Meals' home phone number showed at least two message boards posted their home address and telephone number last night."

Meals just turned 50, so his kids may still be school age and at home. We all mess up, but few of us become targets like this. When an umpire's family is threatened and harrassed, lines have been crossed.

Buster Olney is proposing a fifth umpire (again) stationed in a replay booth. If we keep seeing more calls like this, it may not be long before some form of replay is enacted. There are simply too many dollars riding on the calls.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Buster Olney is proposing a fifth umpire (again) stationed in a replay booth. If we keep seeing more calls like this, it may not be long before some form of replay is enacted. There are simply too many dollars riding on the calls.

Maybe, but if this was the NFL model where you need conclusive evidence to turnover the call, this call would have been very hard to overturn. And the problem with baseball is that there are not always great angles to get plays right. So you can have replay, but many of these close plays will not change because of the limitations of the angles. And the only reason that people think this was missed is because of the "expected" call scenario rather than what really happened.

Peace

[Ref'sProudPapa]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Personally, I don't care about this play at all, with the exception that eliminating the expected call has finally reached this level -- where a MLB umpire is willing to make a "best guess" on a call where he got straight lined a bit rather than take all the pieces of evidence in front of him and realize that the ball beat the runner by a mile and missing an actual tag here is 10000000000x worse than calling R3 out on a swipe tag that *might* have missed.

How many of us would've given a quick little fist pump on our field and gone on to the next inning and not thought twice about it?

Curious -- just a question. (First post on OF, by the way -- hello.) Is it the same analysis if the score had been 2-1 and the safe call extends rather than ends the game?

This all makes a lot of sense to me if Meals acknowleged he was guessing. (Maybe he did -- I didn't see all the post-game stuff.) If he wasn't, though -- if he felt he got a great look and saw it right -- the fact that replay shows he was wrong doesn't make it a guess. Just a missed call, right?