Pirates/Braves ending

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Wrong. Every replay that was being shown last night - both on ESPN highlights and on MLB.com - CLEARLY showed the tag missing the runner. Multiple angles at multiple speeds. It was nearly half a day later before anyone produced a video that began convincing the readers here of the missed call. If all the umpires had were the ESPN replays to deal with at the game, this would not have been overturned.

Imagine the outrage then! "How can you miss this call with replay?!?!?!"

Joe Torre, an executive with MLB baseball disagrees with your assessment. His quote regarding the missed out is available online and has been shown numerous times on ESPN, CNN, and multiple local stations.

Oh, the umpire who made the call said that after seeing the replay, the runner was tagged on the shin. That sounds pretty definitive, but then again you know more than two MLB guys. LOL!

[MikeStrybel]

It's pretty funny that some whine about the what people would say if we had MLB instant replay and the call was still missed.

I imagine that it would be the same as what happens in the NFL, NCAA football, NBA and NHL. Some will keep whining about how their team was robbed while others will applaud the second look.

The fact that technology is there to assist in theseMLB games but ignored is silly.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Joe Torre, an executive with MLB baseball disagrees with your assessment. His quote regarding the missed out is available online and has been shown numerous times on ESPN, CNN, and multiple local stations.

Oh, the umpire who made the call said that after seeing the replay, the runner was tagged on the shin. That sounds pretty definitive, but then again you know more than two MLB guys. LOL!

Who cares what Joe Torre says? Isn't it funny that all these "executives" are usually former managers or general managers who wouldn't know anything about umpiring if it bit them on the a$$?

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Who cares what Joe Torre says? Isn't it funny that all these "executives" are usually former managers or general managers who wouldn't know anything about umpiring if it bit them on the a$$?

MLB executives who are former players and managers are much better suited to offer opinions about the game than those from the outside (very few of them and for good reason). I'm pretty sure that MLB values his opinion more than say, a Wisconsin based, amateur umpire on an online forum. So, to answer your first question, MLB does. And for your second, no, it isn't funny because your assertion isn't true. This isn't about umpiring mechanics, it regards a bad call and the need for review of such important decisions. Torre did not comment about Meals being out of position or his training, he spoke on what he and the MLB front office saw as a missed call in a critical situation. End of story.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

MLB executives who are former players and managers are much better suited to offer opinions about the game than those from the outside (very few of them and for good reason). I'm pretty sure that MLB values his opinion more than say, a Wisconsin based, amateur umpire on an online forum. So, to answer your first question, MLB does. And for your second, no, it isn't funny because your assertion isn't true. This isn't about umpiring mechanics, it regards a bad call and the need for review of such important decisions. Torre did not comment about Meals being out of position or his training, he spoke on what he and the MLB front office saw as a missed call in a critical situation. End of story.

And he also mentioned in that press release that he saw no need whatsoever for expanding replay to cover plays like this. I guess that overrides the opinion of, say, an Illinois based, amateur umpire on an online forum.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

And he also mentioned in that press release that he saw no need whatsoever for expanding replay to cover plays like this. I guess that overrides the opinion of, say, an Illinois based, amateur umpire on an online forum.

It's pretty despicable when you misrepresent what was realy said. If you want to do that, realize that it is easy to find the actual release on MLB.com

Here is what Joe's release actually said,

"Having been the beneficiary of calls like this and having been on the other end in my experience as a player and as a manager, I have felt that this has always been a part of our game. As a member of the Commissioner’s Special Committee for On-Field Matters, I have heard many discussions on umpiring and technology over the past two years, including both the pros and the cons of expanding replay. However, most in the game recognize that the human element always will be part of baseball and instant replay can never replace all judgment calls by umpires. Obviously, a play like this is going to spark a lot of conversation, and we will continue to consider all viewpoints in our ongoing discussions regarding officiating in baseball.
“We expect the best from our umpires, and an umpire would tell you he expects the best of himself. We have to continue to strive for accuracy, consistency and professionalism day in and day out.”

He said that instant replay can never replace all judgement calls by umpires, not that there is no need for it. Further, he stated that they will consider all viewpoints regarding ongoing discussions regarding officiating in baseball while...striving for accuracy and consistency. That would seem to indicate that they are looking at all avenues to protect the integrity of the game, the value of the business and the investments of those involved.

The beginning of the press release also stated that Meals admitted the bad call to Torre and the MLB front office. We have seen a number of critical calls being blown lately. Instant replay won't solve all but will definitely assist the field crew in many more. People worried about how long it would make NFL games and most can't imagine the game without it. In the end, MLB will protect the cash cow and the opinion of this Illinois amateur umpire will be vindicated. We have witnessed too many steps towards that end already.

[PeteBooth]

If MLB REALLY CARES about the quality of umpiring then before expanding IR why not INVEST in their product.

Why not take a more active role in umpire development etc. Until you make it to the BIGS which is next to impossible, you earn peanuts. A manager at Walmart makes more then the Crew Chief at Triple A.

In a nutshell, you are not attracting the "best of the best" with the current process in place. MLB leaves umpire development up to someone else.

IR would simply be a "baindaid" to the REAL problem.

Invest in your product, and see what happens.

Pete Booth

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

If MLB REALLY CARES about the quality of umpiring then before expanding IR why not INVEST in their product.

Why not take a more active role in umpire development etc. Until you make it to the BIGS which is next to impossible, you earn peanuts. A manager at Walmart makes more then the Crew Chief at Triple A.

In a nutshell, you are not attracting the "best of the best" with the current process in place. MLB leaves umpire development up to someone else.

IR would simply be a "baindaid" to the REAL problem.

Invest in your product, and see what happens.

Pete Booth

The kids are well trained, supervised and evaluated through the minors. A larger issue is the lack of serious continuing education and training once an umpire makes the majors. Instead of just working spring training games, ML umpires should have a rigorous course in mechanics and rules every pre-season.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Joe Torre, an executive with MLB baseball disagrees with your assessment. His quote regarding the missed out is available online and has been shown numerous times on ESPN, CNN, and multiple local stations.

Oh, the umpire who made the call said that after seeing the replay, the runner was tagged on the shin. That sounds pretty definitive, but then again you know more than two MLB guys. LOL!

Just like Rich said, who gives a damn what Torre or any executive says that is trying to cover PR. If that was the case than there will never be IR when the Commissioner says he is not for it. And if you listen to Selig as well he makes it clear that if there is such a system it will be very limited. It might not involve plays like this that we are talking about.

And who cares what the umpire says now? I think he made that comment to appease people, because if this took place during the game and there was IR, I doubt the result would have changed if you needed conclusive evidence to change a call. Or there would have been a debate if that was a good change. The media tends to take these situations and complain when they do not get the result. There are many times in other sports when the IR did not overturn a call and the media went crazy. And in those sports I think it will be a lot easier to change calls than baseball will ever be able to do at least that is the case with out and safe calls.

Peace

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Just like Rich said, who gives a damn what Torre or any executive says that is trying to cover PR. If that was the case than there will never be IR when the Commissioner says he is not for it. And if you listen to Selig as well he makes it clear that if there is such a system it will be very limited. It might not involve plays like this that we are talking about.

And who cares what the umpire says now? I think he made that comment to appease people, because if this took place during the game and there was IR, I doubt the result would have changed if you needed conclusive evidence to change a call. Or there would have been a debate if that was a good change. The media tends to take these situations and complain when they do not get the result. There are many times in other sports when the IR did not overturn a call and the media went crazy. And in those sports I think it will be a lot easier to change calls than baseball will ever be able to do at least that is the case with out and safe calls.

Peace

Jeff,
Stop. Your posts are endlessly convoluted.

I have never stated that instant replay will fix all bad calls in baseball. No one expected it in professional football, basketball, hockey or soccer. About a decade ago some umpires complained about the huddles they saw taking place on NCAA and MiLB fields. When MLB adopted the "let's work to get the call right" attitude, some whined that the human element was going away from the game. Now, we see the LWTGTCR mentality prevalent on amateur fields across America. The game didn't suffer. It improved.

Meals admitted his mistake because it was very public and the MLB office expects professional demeanor from WUA members. I respect Meals immensely for owning up to it. I deplore those who harassed his family and the barstool jockeys who believe they could have done a better job that night. He is a terrific umpire who just showed the world that he is human. Meals did what many here would never do, admit a shortcoming. MLB will think far more of him for doing that rather than acting headstrong about a bad call.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I deplore those who harassed his family and the barstool jockeys who believe they could have done a better job that night.

How long before there's a 'Meals' version of this?


Doug Eddings Is A Douche: FireDougEddings.com

[zm1283]

For the record, I don't think Meals' call was the "Worst call in MLB history" as the fanboys keep saying, or even a bad call at that. Was it missed? Maybe, but in real time I can see how he didn't see a tag. As others have said, replay would probably show this as inconclusive.

As far as IR goes in MLB, I don't like it. I'm okay with it being used for boundary and fair/foul calls on home runs like it is now, but it just muddies things up otherwise. You can't change foul balls to fair, you can't change a catch to a no-catch with runners on base, etc. If MLB is going to implement replay for this stuff, the NFL might as well review every penalty, and the NBA better review every close foul (block/charge plays maybe) as well, because that is essentially what these people pushing for replay want on the baseball side.

Something the umpires also better push for is an ejection if the manager loses the challenge. You get one challenge per game. If you win the challenge, no more for the game. If you lose it, you are dumped.

These people that keep talking about how bad the umpiring has gotten are incredible stupid. Umpires have missed calls for 100+ years and the game is doing fine. HDTV and multiple camera angles are the only thing that have changed how umpires work. (As others have said in this thread)

[MrUmpire]

Despite the assertions of those who should be MLB umpires but aren't, this was not a gross miss. It took several views of replays from different angles to find the definitive view of a light tag of the pant leg. This will not be remembered as a huge issue.

Umpires have always missed calls. Today's umpires are no worse than those of the 50's or 60's. The difference is that today we have a permanent record of verification of their missed calls. In the 50's and 60's we had just our memories of our opinions.

None of the proposals being considered by ML for instant replay include tag plays, and none of the parties to any agreement: owners, players' union, managers - have voiced support of such a move.

Instant replay will be expanded when it can be done efficiently, timely and controllably. The WUA concept of adding a fifth umpire to each crew and including IR in the rotation is the most attractive to me, personally, but promoting 17 umpires to the ML at the same time may result in diluting the talent level.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Jeff,
Stop. Your posts are endlessly convoluted.

First of all I have a right to give an opinion about this or anything. If you do not like it, do not read them or do not come to this site. Then you will not have to worry about the nature of my posts. It is not like we interact during the season.

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

I have never stated that instant replay will fix all bad calls in baseball. No one expected it in professional football, basketball, hockey or soccer. About a decade ago some umpires complained about the huddles they saw taking place on NCAA and MiLB fields. When MLB adopted the "let's work to get the call right" attitude, some whined that the human element was going away from the game. Now, we see the LWTGTCR mentality prevalent on amateur fields across America. The game didn't suffer. It improved.

OK, but there are many examples that replay would not correct plays or give a better angle in baseball. Those other sports can put a camera on the goal line or goal to show if the ball went in the goal or a score was taking place. I also did not say the game would suffer, I said that many of these plays that people go crazy about will not be overturned if they take the model from other sports where you need conclusive evidence to make a ruling (like the Oklahoma at Oregon college football game several years ago). Even football has many problems with getting good angles on certain plays. And with the TV disparity that MLB has where the Yankees has a better TV deal than the Royals, you might find out that there is a inconsistency in the application or ability to show plays in one park compared to another. Football does not have this problem because they share revenue with TV coverage are almost the same from one game to another.

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Meals admitted his mistake because it was very public and the MLB office expects professional demeanor from WUA members. I respect Meals immensely for owning up to it. I deplore those who harassed his family and the barstool jockeys who believe they could have done a better job that night. He is a terrific umpire who just showed the world that he is human. Meals did what many here would never do, admit a shortcoming. MLB will think far more of him for doing that rather than acting headstrong about a bad call.

Again, this is something that was done because of the nature of the coverage. If ESPN did not go over this play 100 times, there would have been no comment about this call. I have seen many missed calls this season and did not see any statement from the umpire. This is not about him as an umpire, but there was a time when they did not give this kind of access to the media about calls. And other leagues do not allow their officials to directly comment about situations they are directly involved in. This is all about PR and I am sure he was encouraged by his bosses to talk about this play to the media where other leagues would just have someone from the league discuss these plays and keep the individual from making personal statements. And I also think a lot of the fuel he is given personally with his address exposed are because he commented on this play. Torre and others from the league should talk about this, not the umpire involved. And that has nothing to do with being headstrong.

Peace

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

First of all I have a right to give an opinion about this or anything. If you do not like it, do not read them or do not come to this site. Then you will not have to worry about the nature of my posts. It is not like we interact during the season.

You have every right to your opinion. Try to have just one in a sentence though. You cloud every issue with non-sequitors and irrelevancies that it makes it difficult to read them. I'm not the first to tell you this. Enjoy posting; you've done it thousands of times on numerous boards to know that your musings are often met with eye rolls and contempt. I just offered advice on how you can clean them up for forums, that is all. I have no problem with you disagreeing as long as it is focused.

OK, but there are many examples that replay would not correct plays or give a better angle in baseball. Those other sports can put a camera on the goal line or goal to show if the ball went in the goal or a score was taking place. I also did not say the game would suffer, I said that many of these plays that people go crazy about will not be overturned if they take the model from other sports where you need conclusive evidence to make a ruling (like the Oklahoma at Oregon college football game several years ago). Even football has many problems with getting good angles on certain plays. And with the TV disparity that MLB has where the Yankees has a better TV deal than the Royals, you might find out that there is a inconsistency in the application or ability to show plays in one park compared to another. Football does not have this problem because they share revenue with TV coverage are almost the same from one game to another.

Seriously, what part of "instant replay will not remedy every bad call" is a puzzle to you? No one insists that it will fix all calls.

TV deals have nothing to do with replay, it has to do with revenue generation. Every ball park has enough camera operators and remote capablilities already to handle future changes.

Again, this is something that was done because of the nature of the coverage. If ESPN did not go over this play 100 times, there would have been no comment about this call.

Stop. You are once again writing about something you know nothing about. Thousands of Pirates fans were watching and listening to that game. The TV commentator went nuts after the call and he didn't even have the replay yet. When he did, the radio booth guys next door could see it and added to the controversy. ESPN had nothing to do with it.

I have seen many missed calls this season and did not see any statement from the umpire. This is not about him as an umpire, but there was a time when they did not give this kind of access to the media about calls.

Google it. There are several umpires who have addressed issues regarding blown calls this year.

And other leagues do not allow their officials to directly comment about situations they are directly involved in. This is all about PR and I am sure he was encouraged by his bosses to talk about this play to the media where other leagues would just have someone from the league discuss these plays and keep the individual from making personal statements.

Irrelevant. MLB does.

And I also think a lot of the fuel he is given personally with his address exposed are because he commented on this play. Torre and others from the league should talk about this, not the umpire involved. And that has nothing to do with being headstrong.

Seriously? He commented on the play after the game, when a pool reporter asked if he had seen the replay. Like Jim Joyce after the Gallaraga call, Meals stepped up and admitted his mistake. It was classy and commendable. The goofs that published his address and phone numbers, harrassed his family and threatened him are typical mouth breathing, knuckledraggers. If they got mad because he admitted his mistake then you are correct, but most educated souls think otherwise.