Little League - grounds for forfeit

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

And Ripken, Dixie, PONY, the Independents? Do they hire pro coaches?

As usual, my point is missed. You figure out the reason.

Perhaps if someone else made the same point, it would be understood?

Anyone?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

As usual, my point is missed. You figure out the reason.

Perhaps if someone else made the same point, it would be understood?

Anyone?

It wasn't really missed. And nope. I would have zinged 'someone else' too. I get really really tired of people saying "Little League" is screwed up as if it were the only thing out there, some with an implication that everyting else is OK. In fact, they have less than half of the local youth baseball organizations. At the time of the date change they were claiming 40%.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

It wasn't really missed. And nope. I would have zinged 'someone else' too. I get really really tired of people saying "Little League" is screwed up as if it were the only thing out there, some with an implication that everyting else is OK. In fact, they have less than half of the local youth baseball organizations. At the time of the date change they were claiming 40%.

I don't think it was a direct attack against LL. That is just what the OP is about. I think he is saying LL isn't the problem. It is the parents and the kids' lack of desire to play baseball. Many parents force their kids to play rather than giving the kids a choice. And, getting out there and encouraging their kids.

So many drop their kids off and leave. I know some have jobs to prevent them from participating as much as they want to. But, there are those few who use sports and coaches as a babysitter while they have "better things to do".

Also, how the coaches do not do their job and actually learn the game while they are suppose to be teaching it to the players.

It was an attack on society in general. Not LL.

Again, I may have missed the mark. I never know with Finnerty.

[Sven K]

We had a similar situation a few years ago. My kids' team was making a comeback on a team in the last inning against a lesser pitcher. The other teams' coach decided to take that kid out and re-insert his ace who had pitched the first inning (you play to win the game, right?).

I rarely take kids off the mound during an inning unless they are hurt. That league has a 5 run limit and I figure they can take their lumps and learn from it. Not the other coach, he wanted a win.

When I gently pointed out that you can't re-insert at pitcher their assistant threw a fit. Eventually the PU dug the rules out and said, yep, you can't re-insert at pitcher.

The pitcher (a little kid at that) went on to get the two last outs including snagging a ball hit up the middle destined to a hit and threw the runner out to end it.

Probably the highlight of the kid's career and the coaches almost ruined it for him. The head coach from the other team actually called me later that night and apologized for his behavior. I told him that I was happy for his pitcher and glad it worked out. Even if we lost the game.

Sometimes the adults DO get it right.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

As usual, my point is missed. You figure out the reason.

Perhaps if someone else made the same point, it would be understood?

Anyone?

While I do miss many of your points, my guess is how the poster worded his statement. "Well, the managers are just some parents who volunteer to coach." Implying that just b/c they are volunteers, they don't know anything. And, seems as though it is giving an excuse of why they didn't know the rules.

This is my guess and may be off the mark. But, I think I might be close this time.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

While I do miss many of your points, my guess is how the poster worded his statement. "Well, the managers are just some parents who volunteer to coach." Implying that just b/c they are volunteers, they don't know anything. And, seems as though it is giving an excuse of why they didn't know the rules.

This is my guess and may be off the mark. But, I think I might be close this time.

Meh, I actually think his current coaches are outstanding. Not making excuses for them per se, just acknowledging that they are just people like me, and the only difference is they are willing to put in a huge amount of time and effort to teach kids, and hence I am not going to get too worked up over them missing something like this.

I am not implying that they do not know anything - clearly they know a lot more about teaching kids baseball than I do - but I am saying that they are not people who have the luxury of being able to spend a huge amount of time making sure they understand the nuances of the rules. So mistakes happen. They ahve taken ownership of their mistake and the consequence of it admirably, IMO.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

While I do miss many of your points, my guess is how the poster worded his statement. "Well, the managers are just some parents who volunteer to coach." Implying that just b/c they are volunteers, they don't know anything. And, seems as though it is giving an excuse of why they didn't know the rules.

This is my guess and may be off the mark. But, I think I might be close this time.

Maybe it should be highlighted this way: "Well, the managers are just some parents who volunteer to coach."

It's the parents part, folks! Good Christ, there are volunteer coaches at D-I universities, who are some of the best coaches who ever walked on a diamond!

It's a system that is designed to produce mediocre results. When a player arrives at his first day of high school practice with a Little League background, he is behind, with little likelihood of catching up.

And I guess I could placate everyone who takes offense at that reality, but then, I can't figure out quite how to word the sing-song portrayal. I'm better with the truth.

Let me try anyway: If you have a son who loves baseball and would like to play it even as far as high school, and perhaps even college, then Little League is a wonderful place to start. Scores and scores of young players spring from the Little League ranks and pepper college and professional rosters just as they always have.

(Sorry, I need to go wash my shoes.)

[Steven Tyler]

Sorry,

Excuse me for having an opinion (deleted)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Sorry,

Excuse me for having an opinion (deleted)

Your previous actions have obviated your right to have (or at least to express) any such opinions.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

It's a system that is designed to produce mediocre results. When a player arrives at his first day of high school practice with a Little League background, he is behind, with little likelihood of catching up.

Behind compared to what though?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Berkut

Behind compared to what though?

Principally PONY, but also travel ball and the other stuff that springs from those programs. Whatever the league affiliation, it is critical that a young player learn base running and pitching with runners on base way before he is 13. Playing in a ballpark with realistic outfield fence distances also is a critical element.

I'm from Southern California. Here, Little League players have little chance of being a high school player, and no chance at all at a competitive high school. It's been that way around here for about a dozen years, now. And it is becoming that way most everywhere.

I have literally seen one Little Leaguer make it at a competitive local high school. He was the ace on the Thousand Oaks team that won Williamsport. He didn't start until he was a senior, and only made it at all because he was a left-handed pitcher.

I'm sorry that's the way it is, but it's just the way it works these years.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I'm from Southern California. Here, Little League players have little chance of being a high school player, and no chance at all at a competitive high school. It's been that way around here for about a dozen years, now. And it is becoming that way most everywhere.

I have literally seen one Little Leaguer make it at a competitive local high school.

A little further down the 5, it's a different story. LL is King, and PONY is it's slow, drooling little brother. Our town is sandwiched between two PONY bergs, that get the beat down from our high school teams year after year. Nearly every player on the two HS teams are LL products.

I think the real difference it the quality of the coaches teaching the game. I've umpired in the surrounding PONY leagues, and it's just not there, for whatever reason. They're just not savvy.

I truly believe that good coaching is passed down year to year within a league, no matter the affiliation.

[jicecone]

Sorry Kevin, as well as your examples for S. Calif. may support your threads here, I don't believe it is indicative of the entire HS, College or Pro community.

Good talent does not always begin at 11, 12 or 13 and High School is certainly not the only judge of good talent in a ballplayers career.

Your supporting facts may or may not be true for where you live but, I don't believe it is for all areas. JMO

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

, it is critical that a young player learn base running and pitching with runners on base way before he is 13. .

WHY?

It's maybe two days of practice to teach that stuff.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

WHY?

It's maybe two days of practice to teach that stuff.

That speaks to the quality of LL coaching.

Back in the days when a computer took up its own room, our Babe Ruth coach spent much more time coaching these critical parts of the game. Perhaps surprisingly to you, high school and college coaches continued our education in these areas. Maybe someone should have told them that it takes maybe two days. It would have saved us a lot of work.