Little League - grounds for forfeit

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Better idea: Play team Z FOR FUN and have a good time. After the game let the kids swim and have a barbecue

FWIW Ask the KIDS what they want.

hey guys we can play an INTENSE game OR

we can go to the local park play against team Z for fun and THEN go swimming and have a barbecue

In the scheme of things is it really that BIG of deal to beat team B?

Youth Sports is simply OUT OF CONTROL

Pete Booth

Well, lets not over-state things. The kids are having a good time regardless.

And no, in the scheme of things it isn't a big deal to beat Team B at all. but that doesn't mean I won't enjoy it if the kids do so anyway.

Heck, in the scheme of things the ONLY thing that is a "big deal" is that the kids have fun, and hopefully learn something. I think they will learn a lot from the entire thing, and maybe the parents will too...

[Berkut]

[QUOTE=Rich Ives;685636]Tournament? Playoffs coming up? Just what situation are we discussing here?
[quote]

Uhhh, I don't know, really - my kid has only been playing baseball for 2 years, so I am not sure how all this works.

He played on the local 10-11 year old LL team earlier this year. Then he was selected after that "season" ended to play on the 10-11 year old post-season team made up of players from the 8 or so teams that played in the local "regular season" that plays in this "tournament" with teams from around the area. They play 6 more games, which seeds them for a actual elimination-type tournament. I *think* but am not at all certain, that this feeds somehow into the LL regionals or something like that? No idea, really.

And BTW, how could two different coach groups go through an entire season and not know pitchers can't return. It's in the rule book in more than one place (Reg VI(b), 3.03(3), and T-Rule 4(c)).

Never underestimate the ability of a group of people to all be wrong together. It is quite impressive, really. Hell, I've sat in a locker room after a football game with 4 other experienced officials wondering how we ALL managed to screw up some rules interpretation that in hindsight seems rather obvious.

They screwed up. The more I learn, the more I think that the process for resolving that screw up was pretty much ignored and screwed up even more. But at the end of the day, it was their mistake, and they are willing to accept the consequences, and move on.

Like someone said earlier - the kids mostly don't care. Some disappointment that they didn't get a win they thought they had, but they are playing anyway, so oh well.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

There you have it! The Little League system of youth baseball is the reason that America produces an ever-declining number of professional ballplayers.

And Ripken, Dixie, PONY, the Independents? Do they hire pro coaches?

[GA Umpire]

Many if not most youth organizations use volunteer coaches. The same for travel teams only many of them are a little better at knowing baseball than a rec league coach.

Just b/c a coach/umpire is a volunteer doesn't mean they are a bad coach/umpire. That is a very bad stereotype. Not all paid umpires/coaches are very good.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

And Ripken, Dixie, PONY, the Independents? Do they hire pro coaches?

As usual, my point is missed. You figure out the reason.

Perhaps if someone else made the same point, it would be understood?

Anyone?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

As usual, my point is missed. You figure out the reason.

Perhaps if someone else made the same point, it would be understood?

Anyone?

It wasn't really missed. And nope. I would have zinged 'someone else' too. I get really really tired of people saying "Little League" is screwed up as if it were the only thing out there, some with an implication that everyting else is OK. In fact, they have less than half of the local youth baseball organizations. At the time of the date change they were claiming 40%.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

As usual, my point is missed. You figure out the reason.

Perhaps if someone else made the same point, it would be understood?

Anyone?

While I do miss many of your points, my guess is how the poster worded his statement. "Well, the managers are just some parents who volunteer to coach." Implying that just b/c they are volunteers, they don't know anything. And, seems as though it is giving an excuse of why they didn't know the rules.

This is my guess and may be off the mark. But, I think I might be close this time.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

It wasn't really missed. And nope. I would have zinged 'someone else' too. I get really really tired of people saying "Little League" is screwed up as if it were the only thing out there, some with an implication that everyting else is OK. In fact, they have less than half of the local youth baseball organizations. At the time of the date change they were claiming 40%.

I don't think it was a direct attack against LL. That is just what the OP is about. I think he is saying LL isn't the problem. It is the parents and the kids' lack of desire to play baseball. Many parents force their kids to play rather than giving the kids a choice. And, getting out there and encouraging their kids.

So many drop their kids off and leave. I know some have jobs to prevent them from participating as much as they want to. But, there are those few who use sports and coaches as a babysitter while they have "better things to do".

Also, how the coaches do not do their job and actually learn the game while they are suppose to be teaching it to the players.

It was an attack on society in general. Not LL.

Again, I may have missed the mark. I never know with Finnerty.

[Sven K]

We had a similar situation a few years ago. My kids' team was making a comeback on a team in the last inning against a lesser pitcher. The other teams' coach decided to take that kid out and re-insert his ace who had pitched the first inning (you play to win the game, right?).

I rarely take kids off the mound during an inning unless they are hurt. That league has a 5 run limit and I figure they can take their lumps and learn from it. Not the other coach, he wanted a win.

When I gently pointed out that you can't re-insert at pitcher their assistant threw a fit. Eventually the PU dug the rules out and said, yep, you can't re-insert at pitcher.

The pitcher (a little kid at that) went on to get the two last outs including snagging a ball hit up the middle destined to a hit and threw the runner out to end it.

Probably the highlight of the kid's career and the coaches almost ruined it for him. The head coach from the other team actually called me later that night and apologized for his behavior. I told him that I was happy for his pitcher and glad it worked out. Even if we lost the game.

Sometimes the adults DO get it right.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

While I do miss many of your points, my guess is how the poster worded his statement. "Well, the managers are just some parents who volunteer to coach." Implying that just b/c they are volunteers, they don't know anything. And, seems as though it is giving an excuse of why they didn't know the rules.

This is my guess and may be off the mark. But, I think I might be close this time.

Meh, I actually think his current coaches are outstanding. Not making excuses for them per se, just acknowledging that they are just people like me, and the only difference is they are willing to put in a huge amount of time and effort to teach kids, and hence I am not going to get too worked up over them missing something like this.

I am not implying that they do not know anything - clearly they know a lot more about teaching kids baseball than I do - but I am saying that they are not people who have the luxury of being able to spend a huge amount of time making sure they understand the nuances of the rules. So mistakes happen. They ahve taken ownership of their mistake and the consequence of it admirably, IMO.

[PeteBooth]

Highly unlikely

Pete Booth

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

While I do miss many of your points, my guess is how the poster worded his statement. "Well, the managers are just some parents who volunteer to coach." Implying that just b/c they are volunteers, they don't know anything. And, seems as though it is giving an excuse of why they didn't know the rules.

This is my guess and may be off the mark. But, I think I might be close this time.

Maybe it should be highlighted this way: "Well, the managers are just some parents who volunteer to coach."

It's the parents part, folks! Good Christ, there are volunteer coaches at D-I universities, who are some of the best coaches who ever walked on a diamond!

It's a system that is designed to produce mediocre results. When a player arrives at his first day of high school practice with a Little League background, he is behind, with little likelihood of catching up.

And I guess I could placate everyone who takes offense at that reality, but then, I can't figure out quite how to word the sing-song portrayal. I'm better with the truth.

Let me try anyway: If you have a son who loves baseball and would like to play it even as far as high school, and perhaps even college, then Little League is a wonderful place to start. Scores and scores of young players spring from the Little League ranks and pepper college and professional rosters just as they always have.

(Sorry, I need to go wash my shoes.)

[Steven Tyler]

Sorry,

Excuse me for having an opinion (deleted)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Sorry,

Excuse me for having an opinion (deleted)

Your previous actions have obviated your right to have (or at least to express) any such opinions.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

It's a system that is designed to produce mediocre results. When a player arrives at his first day of high school practice with a Little League background, he is behind, with little likelihood of catching up.

Behind compared to what though?