The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 20, 2010, 08:25pm
JJ JJ is offline
Veteran College Umpire
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: IN
Posts: 1,122
2-Man Mechanics Situation

R1, R2, 1 out. Runners off with the pitch, batter lines out to F9. Looks like an easy, inning ending DP, but F9 throws the ball wildly and both runners advance easily.
The defense appeals R2 left early and did not retouch.
Here's the problem: The base umpire, seeing the easy DP developing at first base, moved that way with the throw and did not see if R2 ever retouched. The plate umpire saw the play develop and had to move toward foul ground on the first base side to follow the overthrow.
Who has the retouch at second base?

JJ
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 20, 2010, 09:19pm
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,263
BU. Why is BU moving towards 1B in the first place? Why is PU moving towards foul territory to chase a bad throw?
__________________
I have nipples, Greg. Can you milk me?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 20, 2010, 10:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,057
Send a message via Yahoo to UmpJM
Cool

JJ,

BU has the R2's retouch.

JM
__________________
Finally, be courteous, impartial and firm, and so compel respect from all.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 21, 2010, 06:10am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Farmland west of Chicago
Posts: 74
Send a message via ICQ to BK47
yes JJ, that is BU's call.

In a normal rotation, R1 on second & R2 on first, less than two outs, the rotation is: fly ball to the outfield in the "V" PU goes up to third for the tag up of R1 while BU watches for catch and R2.

In your situation, a fly ball to F9 going towards the line, PU should yell out to BU "I've got the line". That tells BU that rotation is OFF and he has both tag ups. If it was F9 going towards center then BU has the catch and rotation is still on.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 21, 2010, 06:18am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK47 View Post
yes JJ, that is BU's call.

In a normal rotation, R1 on second & R2 on first, less than two outs, the rotation is: fly ball to the outfield in the "V" PU goes up to third for the tag up of R1 while BU watches for catch and R2.

In your situation, a fly ball to F9 going towards the line, PU should yell out to BU "I've got the line". That tells BU that rotation is OFF and he has both tag ups. If it was F9 going towards center then BU has the catch and rotation is still on.
By reversing the runners, you've screwed this up. R2 means 'runner on 2B' (except in the idiotic FED notation that nobody else uses or should use). When JM says BU has the retouch for R2, that's what he means.

When I pregame this situation with my partner, we always give BU the tag by R2. Whether the ball is in the 'V' or to F9 moving toward the line, it makes more sense for PU to take R1's tag (if any).

The only issues are: (a) if PU is on the line for catch/no catch by F9, then he won't be at 3B for a play there on R2; and (b) if PU is on the other line for catch/no catch by F7, then he won't be able to see R1 tag.

Still, I like this mechanic better here. I agree that communication is essential to getting everything covered, but that's true in general and not unique to this situation.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 21, 2010, 07:59am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,581
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK47 View Post
yes JJ, that is BU's call.

In a normal rotation, R1 on second & R2 on first, less than two outs, the rotation is: fly ball to the outfield in the "V" PU goes up to third for the tag up of R1 while BU watches for catch and R2.

In your situation, a fly ball to F9 going towards the line, PU should yell out to BU "I've got the line". That tells BU that rotation is OFF and he has both tag ups. If it was F9 going towards center then BU has the catch and rotation is still on.
1) JJ didn't say that PU had the catch/no-catch call.

2) BU has the tag-up at second whether PU has the catch/no-catch call.

3) What changes is any play on R2 at third -- BU has this if PU is "on-the line" -- but that wasn't the play in question.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 21, 2010, 01:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 1,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK47 View Post
R1 on second & R2 on first...
Please -- just R1, R2. The FED way of identifying baserunners is a needle in the balloon of understanding.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 21, 2010, 02:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Farmland west of Chicago
Posts: 74
Send a message via ICQ to BK47
well excuse me byron for "screwing this up". is this better:

BU has retouch of second base.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 21, 2010, 03:02pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK47 View Post
well excuse me byron for "screwing this up". is this better:

BU has retouch of second base.
No. Repeat after me:

"BU has retouch of R2."
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 21, 2010, 04:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK47 View Post
well excuse me byron for "screwing this up".
Sorry, no offense intended. I've noticed more people using the annoying FED terminology (they screwed up R1, R2, etc.), and I allowed my annoyance into that post. I didn't mean any personal attack in addressing your error.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help with a situation bfiii12 Baseball 18 Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:09am
What do you do in this situation? BlitzkriegBob Softball 1 Mon May 28, 2007 12:03pm
NCAA Mechanics, NFHS Rules/Mechanics InvisibleRef Basketball 4 Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:06am
2-man Mechanics, run-down situation WestMichBlue Softball 2 Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:26am
2-man Mechanics, bunt situation WestMichBlue Softball 13 Mon Mar 08, 2004 01:07pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:10am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1