Jose Offerman punches Ump

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by umpref

I am not just a high school umpire. As usual, we see another case of professional umpires who seem to do everything possible to fan the flames. Hands on hips. Two umpires on one person. Coach talking to one umpire and another umpire cuts in front and get's in his face to talk in an animated fashion. Walking TOWARDS the coach was talking in an animated fashion. Folding the arms.

Wow. What video were you watching? DJ got between his partner and the manager as is supposed to. You can even see him trying to "shoo" away his partner. Jose was the agressive party, not DJ

"This is what I got coach". After you explain, it is OVER! There is nothing else to talk about. No further dialog is needed once he asks why and you explain. I tell them it is over. If they keep carrying on, I explain that I am going back to my position. If they are still there when I get to that position, they are gone. Eject if needed and TURN AWAY AND LET YOUR PARTNERS GET HIM OUT OF THE PARK! If he refused to go, get security to take care of it.

I suppose that works in Midvale. I'll be sure to recommend it to DJ next time I see him.

[umpref]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Wow. What video were you watching? DJ got between his partner and the manager as is supposed to. You can even see him trying to "shoo" away his partner. Jose was the agressive party, not DJ




I suppose that works in Midvale. I'll be sure to recommend it to DJ next time I see him.

Well, I cannot comment about what works in Midvale. I DO however have a rather extensive background with arguing, both the way you see it done in this video, and the way I do it now. I can say with complete certainty that the way I do it now SETTLES DOWN the confrontation and avoids ejections. The way I used to handle it (like in the video) led to a lot of crapstorms (just like in the video).

I could care less if he handled it the way they are taught. They way they are taught doesn't seem to work so well eh?

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by umpref

"This is what I got coach". After you explain, it is OVER! There is nothing else to talk about. No further dialog is needed once he asks why and you explain. I tell them it is over. If they keep carrying on, I explain that I am going back to my position. If they are still there when I get to that position, they are gone. Eject if needed and TURN AWAY AND LET YOUR PARTNERS GET HIM OUT OF THE PARK! If he refused to go, get security to take care of it.

See Piniella, Lou - Reference: YouTube - Lou's Meltdown at Wrigley
See Also Weaver, Earl - Reference: YouTube - Weaver and Haller

It really is that easy! I'm glad the method works all the time for you. Maybe you should train the MLB guys on how to do it.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by umpref

"This is what I got coach". After you explain, it is OVER! There is nothing else to talk about. No further dialog is needed once he asks why and you explain. I tell them it is over. If they keep carrying on, I explain that I am going back to my position. If they are still there when I get to that position, they are gone. Eject if needed and TURN AWAY AND LET YOUR PARTNERS GET HIM OUT OF THE PARK! If he refused to go, get security to take care of it.

Respectfully, if you believe the local umpires, who cannot leave the country as the Americans did, will take care of any Dominican manager, you are mistaken.

Further, if you believe the type of "security" at Dominican ballparks will assist American umpires, you are again mistaken.

You are assuming that whatever technique you use that works so well for you in the US will apply equally to the Dominican League, and, as in most cases where one assumes, you are mistaken.

This is not the first time American umpires were threatened, contacted the authorities, received no assistance, and left the country. The last time, I believe, was in 2006.

Umpiring in the DL is truly a different experience.

[grunewar]

ESPN just reported Offerman was suspended for life in the Dominican......

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Respectfully, if you believe the local umpires, who cannot leave the country as the Americans did, will take care of any Dominican manager, you are mistaken.

Further, if you believe the type of "security" at Dominican ballparks will assist American umpires, you are again mistaken.

You are assuming that whatever technique you use that works so well for you in the US will apply equally to the Dominican League, and, as in most cases where one assumes, you are mistaken.

Exactly my point. All this has been WELL known about this league for years. Then to go down there and think that the same tactics that work in minor and major league ball here was going to work there, welllll, it is just being very shortsighted or niave in my opinion. Or maybe an ego that needs tempering. JMO

[umpref]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Respectfully, if you believe the local umpires, who cannot leave the country as the Americans did, will take care of any Dominican manager, you are mistaken.

Further, if you believe the type of "security" at Dominican ballparks will assist American umpires, you are again mistaken.

You are assuming that whatever technique you use that works so well for you in the US will apply equally to the Dominican League, and, as in most cases where one assumes, you are mistaken.

This is not the first time American umpires were threatened, contacted the authorities, received no assistance, and left the country. The last time, I believe, was in 2006.

Umpiring in the DL is truly a different experience.

So, we can see from this video that the technique of aggressive arguing, ganging up on the coach, putting your arms across your chest and "making a stand" in front of the coach really panned out pretty good!

Trust me, I have done every single mistake I witnessed in that video, and have had outcomes similar (I haven't been hit by a coach, but many years ago when I handled situations poorly like you see in that video, I was shoved several times).

I officiate any number of nationalities in baseball, soccer, basketball. The body language and verbal language used on players who cannot even speak much english that has PROVEN to be successful is universally accepted.

My experience with pro umpires has been that they mostly want to either be:

1 - Right
2 - "Send a message"
3 - Not have their "authority" questioned
4 - Can't seem to walk away from a jab at them

All very poor perceptions to give off via body language and in how to address somebody you should be having a discussion with, IF you have an eye towards keeping confrontations short and on topic.

It is behavior similar to many law enforcement officers. But, I won't go there.

Over the years, I have accumulated my share of "foes" on coaching staffs. But, I don't let the little stuff influence the big decision. As an ex major league indoor soccer referee used to teach to newer refs, "Set the bar high, but NAIL THEM when they go over it".

I have never seen where prolonged arguing with a known hot head has ever turned into a "good thing". So this guy has been taking jabs at them all game, series, season. Great. Was that game when the umps decided to "let him have it"? Great! Dump him quick and move on. Seriously. All's I seen on that video was prolong arguing with a LOT of posturing from the umps, and ganging up on a guys who was obviously pissed. In confrontation, the longer you allow it to go on, the better chance of a bad outcome for one or both parties. The idea is to get it over with quick.

Once I quit having to be "right", and quick worrying about having the last word, and needing to "get back" at coaches, and quit caring that they want to question my knowledge and/or authority, things got better on the field. I was able to go into "discussions" without emotion being displayed or heard in my choice of words. I can now get to the facts, listen to what they have to say, state what I "have", and if they haven't left yet, simply say "We are done here". If the coach decides to keep pursuing it after that, I eject. It is pretty simple. I also don't stick around after the ejection. I get away and will keep walking away until my partner(s) get them out of the park. I don't respond to obvious "bait" comments anymore. "When spear thrown at head, move head". So, when the coach wants to say something like "That is the worst call I have ever seen". I stare at them and say "Ok" without as much as evening raising an eyebrow. I mean, I KNOW I have it right, so what do I care about his opinion? Even if it was a bad call, I certainly am not going to change it because he doesn't like it, and arguing with him about it isn't going to make the confrontation end quicker.

Isn't that the goal? To end the confrontation as quickly as possible on the field? I will use whatever tactic will diffuse the situation as quickly as possible, even if that means I have to "duck my head" a few times. The idea is to get an idea of what the coach is arguing about, address it, then get the game going again. If the coach does not have this same interest, then he OBVIOUSLY wants an ejection, and I grant him that quickly and I walk away.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I commend all of you who don't flaunt your lofty umpiring status. That's very classy. It applies to virtually every one of you who have climbed the ladder higher than many of the rest of us, but see no need to look down on anyone.

And those couple of you who do flaunt your status: well, it's not as lofty as you think.

[umpref]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Some people, like one of this guy's defenders, seem to require experience under specific conditions and circumstances to gain any value from the experience.

Others, like you and me, require only life's general experiences to shape our approach to people in any situation---especially a tense one.

And we're not just high school umpires, nor do we call on only our umpiring skills and experience to manage people in tense situations. That's why we are successful in managing people on whatever level we work, and at whatever capacity in life.

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I commend all of you who don't flaunt your lofty umpiring status. That's very classy. It applies to virtually every one of you who have climbed the ladder higher than many of the rest of us, but see no need to look down on anyone.

And those couple of you who do flaunt your status: well, it's not as lofty as you think.

Thanks for the support.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Ump153

And, yet, if you read this thread, it is Larry and his friend who profess that their answer is THE answer, while we others acknowledge that what we support has limited use. Interesting. I think you are looking at this with preconceived opinions, Steve.

I am not the one who has posted "You are no where near my level in baseball knowledge", "I am an expert in (insert your choice of hitting, pitching, history)", "I know what all ball players contribute to charity, but I can't reveal my source", ad nauseum. And I know you will not find a post in which I post of the level of ball I call.

And, considering the PM's I've received in the past two days, it's doubtful that Larry is speaking for very many.

But, perception is reality as they say, my friend. Please feel free to disregard any post I make and I will refrain from responding to you.

Enjoy.

Don't use quotes when you are making up what you're writing.

You have proven time and again where your level of knowledge of the game of baseball stops.

And just so you know, ballplayer is one word.