“Coach Dad” Shenanigans

[btdt]

On the Jim Evans balk video, he specifically shows this play and proclaims it legal. I will go with Jim Evans ............. it's legal

[DG]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Any good one liners to handle situations like this?

I don't think I would try to use a one liner in this situation but if I did it might be something like "I can think of a fair number of former major league players who now announce games on TV and they are very often just wrong on rules."

[ODJ]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Any good one liners to handle situations like this?

Coach, as soon as I get home I'm going to read the rules. It'll be a first for both of us.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

................. R1, R2 & R3, with F3 playing back, not holding the runner on.

When the catcher puts the signs down, F3 breaks toward the bag (timing play) and F1 throws the ball to him five feet away from 1B.

Any good one liners to handle situations like this?

First off, "one line-ing" your way through an argument can backfire on you.

Second, you have to be careful on a play like this. F3 playing behind the runner and breaks to 1st on the signs. If F1 steps and throws to the bag, this is not a balk! F1 accomplished what he was supposed to do, regardless of where F3 is.

In this case, however, as stated, F1 did not throw the ball to the bag.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by DG

It also says "and is obviously not making an attempt at retiring the runner at first base". In this situation "F3 breaks toward the bag (timing play) and F1 throws the ball to him five feet away from 1B."

5 feet is pretty near the effin bag. I agree with those that have "no balk" on the play as described.

[dash_riprock]

And moving toward it as well. IOW, 5 feet and closing. By the time you call the balk, he's on top of it.

[PeteBooth]

[

QUOTE=njdevs00cup;597920]


When the catcher puts the signs down, F3 breaks toward the bag (timing play) and F1 throws the ball to him five feet away from 1B. I call a balk warning. "Coach Dad" questions the call at the time, citing his AAA experience and the fact that I did not warn the other pitcher when he did the same type of play to 3B (this made me seriously question this guy's credentials).

The coach no matter who has a right to question this balk warning because IT WAS NOT a balk. I realize in many of these Op's we WHTBT but I agree with Bob as F3 was breaking TOWARDS the bag and was MAKING a play. As another said the authorities would have NO balk.

Therefore, be careful when you say


Any good one liners to handle situations like this

Because you were wrong.

Now the next part.

In between innings, "Coach Dad" and his posse of five other coaches (quickly fixed that) come out and say this is a legal play.

You DO NOT ALLOW this PERIOD. At the Plate Conference make certain the HEAD coach is present and HE is the ONLY one you will speak to. You said you fixed it so hopefully the only conversation you had was with the head coach.

Summary: Study up on the balk rules and if you can get the Jim Evans balk Video. From what you describe the aforementioned play is LEGAL and the coach without saying all the "other stuff' has a beef.

Pete Booth

[mbyron]

I made a post this morning in this thread. What happened to it?

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I made a post this morning in this thread. What happened to it?

Was this it?

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup
In between innings, "Coach Dad" and his posse of five other coaches (quickly fixed that) come out and say this is a legal play.

Any good one liners to handle situations like this?

"No it isn't. Rule 8.05."
__________________
Cheers,
mb

It's still there

Pete Booth

[bossman72]

F3 was making a play. I also have nothing...

[njdevs00cup]

First off, I will order the Evans video as recommended.

Second, I want to clarify this. Can F1 throw to F3 in any position, from the rubber, if 1B is occupied? I was always taught that the throw needs to go directly to the bag in this situation. To clarify my initial post, F3's initial movement (two or three steps) was to 1B. He received the throw in a stationary position, no longer moving toward the bag.

[DG]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

First off, I will order the Evans video as recommended.

Second, I want to clarify this. Can F1 throw to F3 in any position, from the rubber, if 1B is occupied? I was always taught that the throw needs to go directly to the bag in this situation. To clarify my initial post, F3's initial movement (two or three steps) was to 1B. He received the throw in a stationary position, no longer moving toward the bag.

F1 can throw the ball over the top of the bag while F3 is looking out into CF, not a balk, he threw directly to the base. F1 can throw to F3 who is moving toward the bag, and catches the ball 5 feet from the bag, if this is a legitimate "timing play" attempt at tagging R1 off the bag. F1 can throw to F3 who is 5 feet from the bag and stationary if F3 can then attempt a tag on R1.

5' is so close a putout attempt is easily possible. A timing play is just that, fool the offensive player into taking a big lead and then time a pickoff and F3 moviong toward the bag for a catch to get a tag out near the bag.

Evans video shows a couple of good timing plays, and then some that are not.

[PeteBooth]

The Key is this

Was F3 making a play? As other said 5 ft with F3 moving is a deceptive move on the part of the defense - perfectly legal

here's a typcial balk move when F1 is throwing to F3.

Good Lefty up at the plate - Very slow runner on first base F3 is now playing WAY off the bag say 12 feet or so.

We all know or should know that when F1 is on the pitcher's plate he cannot feint a throw to first base. Sometimes F1 forgets the situation and turns to pick-off R1. He KNOWS he cannot feint there so he simply tosses the ball to F3 who is No -WHERE near the bag or making a play.

As Umpires we should know certain situations even though we are NOT playing anymore as IMO that helps us use our judgement better. While it's not a pre-requisite to have actually played baseball to become an umpire it helps

Pete Booth

[cardinalfan]

Here's a one liner for you:

Coach: "Yeah, I was in AAA two years."
You: "Where were you?"
Coach: "New Orleans".
You: "Cool. When we were on vacation down there the car wouldn't start. I called you guys and you sent a mechanic right out!"



I had a h.s. coach recently tell us immediately at the plate conference he played at an SEC school. I told him I know the coach there, asked his name again, and told him I would tell the coach I met him. He kicked the dirt and admitted he "never really made the traveling roster". (No one-liner necessary!)

[Kevin Finnerty]

On Friday, I had a coach tell me that he played pro ball for four different organizations, and that he's never seen a player ejected for doing a pop-up slide and knocking a fielder down.

I said, "Well, that's great. What's your experience with high school baseball? That's what we're playing here."

Originally Posted by cc6

Tim_C would say to never cite a specific rule in an argument.

Why not? It ends arguments almost instantly and prevents subsequent arguments. Follow that advice if you like prolonged and frequent arguments. A quick partial quotation of the wording of an applicable rule has always resulted in a quick and favorable end to an argument.