“Coach Dad” Shenanigans

[njdevs00cup]

I have to first preface this situation with the fact that this situation happened during a 13U travel game, in which each pitcher was given a balk warning. "Coach Dad" had already mentioned his stint in AAA to both myself and the plate umpire, the opposing coaches and his players. R1, R2 & R3, with F3 playing back, not holding the runner on.

When the catcher puts the signs down, F3 breaks toward the bag (timing play) and F1 throws the ball to him five feet away from 1B. I call a balk warning. "Coach Dad" questions the call at the time, citing his AAA experience and the fact that I did not warn the other pitcher when he did the same type of play to 3B (this made me seriously question this guy's credentials). In between innings, "Coach Dad" and his posse of five other coaches (quickly fixed that) come out and say this is a legal play. Their justification was that they had already picked off nine runners.

Any good one liners to handle situations like this?

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

I have to first preface this situation with the fact that this situation happened during a 13U travel game, in which each pitcher was given a balk warning. "Coach Dad" had already mentioned his stint in AAA to both myself and the plate umpire, the opposing coaches and his players. R1, R2 & R3, with F3 playing back, not holding the runner on.

When the catcher puts the signs down, F3 breaks toward the bag (timing play) and F1 throws the ball to him five feet away from 1B. I call a balk warning. "Coach Dad" questions the call at the time, citing his AAA experience and the fact that I did not warn the other pitcher when he did the same type of play to 3B (this made me seriously question this guy's credentials). In between innings, "Coach Dad" and his posse of five other coaches (quickly fixed that) come out and say this is a legal play. Their justification was that they had already picked off nine runners.

Any good one liners to handle situations like this?

Not in my game.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

"Coach Dad" had already mentioned his stint in AAA to both myself and the plate umpire, the opposing coaches and his players.

Big whoop, I say...I've umpired so many former major league players as coaches and as players that AAA doesn't impress me in the least.

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Any good one liners to handle situations like this?

"How come you never made it to the big leagues?"

or

"Well, this is how they call it in the big leagues!"

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

In between innings, "Coach Dad" and his posse of five other coaches (quickly fixed that) come out and say this is a legal play.

Any good one liners to handle situations like this?

"No it isn't. Rule 8.05."

[johnnyg08]

nah...usually people who brag about what they think is a big deal...pretty much take care of making themselves look like idiots...I wouldn't do anything but continue to umpire.

[cc6]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Any good one liners to handle situations like this?

Just "you're gone" when he cites his AAA experience as a way to argue your call.

Edited to add: I might only eject for this if he yells out loud about his AAA experience.

[David B]

Originally Posted by mbyron

"No it isn't. Rule 8.05."

Exactly, the best way I handle coaches is with the actual rule. Since they don't know the rules it puts them obviously on the defensive.

Thanks
David

[cc6]

Originally Posted by David B

Exactly, the best way I handle coaches is with the actual rule. Since they don't know the rules it puts them obviously on the defensive.

Thanks
David

Tim_C would say to never cite a specific rule in an argument.

[SAump]

This is not a balk.

steps to first base and throws to the first baseman who, because of his distance from the base, is (or would have been) unable to try a tag against the runner at first base

What are you going to do now?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SAump

This is not a balk.
What are you going to do now?

If F3 had no play on R1 it was.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by cc6

Tim_C would say to never cite a specific rule in an argument.

I would agree w/ TimC on that one. No need to show him up...he'll probably look it up anyway...or ask one of his buddies at work the next day who "umps" and he'll let him know.

[David B]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I would agree w/ TimC on that one. No need to show him up...he'll probably look it up anyway...or ask one of his buddies at work the next day who "umps" and he'll let him know.

Come on guys - this is not rocket science. We are not talking about quoting verbatim rules to a coach, that would be as Tim would say OOO.

We're talking, coach comes to discuss rule, (with some dumb observations or other comments as was discussed in OP above). Coach, the rule states that (and we give a very quick but concise rule statement) and then we move on.

This gets the job done, without sounding OOO, and definitely puts the coach on notice, I know what I'm doing and that's what we going to adhere to in THIS game today.

I don't spend much time talking to coaches during a game, just my style.

Maybe I made it sound like we going to be quoting rules etc., or as some would do, pull their rule book out .... just kidding!!!


Thanks
David

[DG]

I just read 8.05 again and I don't see anything on this "move". However, J/R says it is a balk if a pitcher "throws to first baseman who, because of his distance from the base, is (or would have been) unable to try a tag against a runner at first base."

I can envision a possible attempt at a tag in this situation if F1 is catching the ball 5 feet from the bag while moving toward the bag.

If memory serves this "move" is covered in the Evans Balk video as well.

[JR12]

The MLBUM says a throw to F3 not near the bag is a balk, however a throw to a middle infielder or third baseman, not near 2nd or 3rd is NOT a balk!

[DG]

Originally Posted by JR12

The MLBUM says a throw to F3 not near the bag is a balk, however a throw to a middle infielder or third baseman, not near 2nd or 3rd is NOT a balk!

It also says "and is obviously not making an attempt at retiring the runner at first base". In this situation "F3 breaks toward the bag (timing play) and F1 throws the ball to him five feet away from 1B."