Bad coach, good coach

[BuggBob]

I had a game this week end that had two very interesting game changing plays.

Team A batting, bases loaded one out. Batter fouls a few balls then gets one ball, fouls a few more then gets another ball. Catcher asks me for the count. Loudly and for all to see I show the count as "2 balls and 2 strikes" The very next pitch is a ball, the batter trots down to first all other runners start to trot to the next base. Team B coach is yelling to the pitcher to tag the runner coming home. The pitcher tags the runner, I call an out. The other runners return, chaos ensues. the offensive (Team A) coach GOES NUTS yelling, "That was ball four!" Calmly I tell him no it was ball three, runner out, the batter needs come back and finish their at bat. He asks me to ask my partner, partner also same count as me. Out stands lets play. After a lengthy (and heated on his part) discussion with the coach the play stands. Coach tells his players that they need to play harder as the umpire is stealing the game from them. The next pitch is a strike (swinging) inning over.

Same game bases loaded one out. Team B at bat. Battery hits a ball right back to the pitch (the bat broke clean in two -- had no bearing on the play but was kind of cool). Quick throw to the plate for an out, catcher takes two steps to throw the ball to first, retired runner slides into catcher feet, throw goes askew. I rule Dead ball interference by a retired runner, runner closest to home is out. End of the inning. Team B coach asks me was the slide legal, I told him it was because if it was not his player would have been ejected. He understands and HE tells his players that was a good call, lets play.

Two plays, two different coaching styles. One coach blamed the umpire crew for every misfortune, the other thanked the umpires for every opportunity. One coach encouraged his players and fans to degrade the umpires, and the other absolutely forbid it.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

...Coach tells his players that they need to play harder as the umpire is stealing the game from them...

... and replacing the coach as well, since this one is now on his way to the parking lot.

[CecilOne]

Did you warn/eject A coach after "Coach tells his players that they need to play harder as the umpire is stealing the game from them"?

Can't the slide be illegal without being flagrant enough for ejection?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dakota

... and replacing the coach as well, since this one is now on his way to the parking lot.

Yep, me and you think alike.. that coach would have been gone for that. No doubt.

My weekly (it seems ) ejection .. "you need to read the rule book" after an easy INT call..

Dont tolerate comments like that.. and making them to the players, there is no way that coach would have gotten even a warning.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

I had a game this week end that had two very interesting game changing plays.

Team A batting, bases loaded one out. Batter fouls a few balls then gets one ball, fouls a few more then gets another ball. Catcher asks me for the count. Loudly and for all to see I show the count as "2 balls and 2 strikes" The very next pitch is a ball, the batter trots down to first all other runners start to trot to the next base. Team B coach is yelling to the pitcher to tag the runner coming home. The pitcher tags the runner, I call an out. The other runners return, chaos ensues. the offensive (Team A) coach GOES NUTS yelling, "That was ball four!" Calmly I tell him no it was ball three, runner out, the batter needs come back and finish their at bat. He asks me to ask my partner, partner also same count as me. Out stands lets play. After a lengthy (and heated on his part) discussion with the coach the play stands. Coach tells his players that they need to play harder as the umpire is stealing the game from them. The next pitch is a strike (swinging) inning over.

Same game bases loaded one out. Team B at bat. Battery hits a ball right back to the pitch (the bat broke clean in two -- had no bearing on the play but was kind of cool). Quick throw to the plate for an out, catcher takes two steps to throw the ball to first, retired runner slides into catcher feet, throw goes askew. I rule Dead ball interference by a retired runner, runner closest to home is out. End of the inning. Team B coach asks me was the slide legal, I told him it was because if it was not his player would have been ejected. He understands and HE tells his players that was a good call, lets play.

Two plays, two different coaching styles. One coach blamed the umpire crew for every misfortune, the other thanked the umpires for every opportunity. One coach encouraged his players and fans to degrade the umpires, and the other absolutely forbid it.

"After a lengthy (and heated on his part) discussion with the coach the play stands."

Should NEVER happen. A VERY BRIEF explanation, and, "That's enough coach. Let's play ball. If he persists, sayonara.

"Coach tells his players that they need to play harder as the umpire is stealing the game from them. The next pitch is a strike (swinging) inning over."

Coach is not around long enough to see the next pitch. Accusing me of cheating is an automatic trip to the parking lot, or further if necessary.

"Battery hits a ball right back to the pitch..."

'Battery' is a term used to denote the pitcher and catcher.

"Quick throw to the plate for an out, catcher takes two steps to throw the ball to first, retired runner slides into catcher feet, throw goes askew. I rule Dead ball interference by a retired runner, runner closest to home is out. End of the inning. Team B coach asks me was the slide legal, I told him it was because if it was not his player would have been ejected."

BAD call. If the slide was legal, there is no justification for calling interference.

Bob

[Andy]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

BAD call. If the slide was legal, there is no justification for calling interference.

Bob

This was my first thought also...but go back and re-read the scenario...(bold emphasis is mine)

"Quick throw to the plate for an out, catcher takes two steps to throw the ball to first, retired runner slides into catcher feet, throw goes askew. I rule Dead ball interference by a retired runner, runner closest to home is out. End of the inning. Team B coach asks me was the slide legal, I told him it was because if it was not his player would have been ejected."

This tells me that the catcher has moved away from the plate after retiring the runner from third. If the runner is sliding into the catcher, she is not attempting to slide at the plate, but is trying to disrupt the catcher's throw.

Sounds like the right call to me.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by Andy

This was my first thought also...but go back and re-read the scenario...(bold emphasis is mine)



This tells me that the catcher has moved away from the plate after retiring the runner from third. If the runner is sliding into the catcher, she is not attempting to slide at the plate, but is trying to disrupt the catcher's throw.

Sounds like the right call to me.

Re-read the statement that it was deemed a 'legal slide". A LEGAL slide is a LEGAL slide is a LEGAL slide. PERIOD.

Bob

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

Re-read the statement that it was deemed a 'legal slide". A LEGAL slide is a LEGAL slide is a LEGAL slide. PERIOD.

Bob

Can someone define a legal slide with citations, please?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Can someone define a legal slide with citations, please?

A legal slide can be either foot first or head first. If a runner slides feet first, at least one leg and buttock shall be on the ground. If a runner slides, the runner shall be within reach of the base with either a hand or a foot when the slide is completed.

A slide is illegal if:
A. The runner uses a rolling, cross-body slide into the fielder.
B. The runner’s raised leg is higher than the fielder’s knee when the fielder is in a standing position.
C. The runner goes beyond the base and makes contact with or alters the play of the fielder.
D. The runner slashes or kicks the fielder with either leg.
E. The runner tries to injure the fielder.

NFHS 2-52-1 and 2. Also U-trip 4-37 & 38.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Dakota

NFHS 2-52-1 and 2. Also U-trip 4-37 & 38.

Also, PONY 1-57.

[IRISHMAFIA]

B. What about when the fielder is not in a "standing position"?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

Same game bases loaded one out. Team B at bat. Battery hits a ball right back to the pitch (the bat broke clean in two -- had no bearing on the play but was kind of cool). Quick throw to the plate for an out, catcher takes two steps to throw the ball to first, retired runner slides into catcher feet, throw goes askew. I rule Dead ball interference by a retired runner, runner closest to home is out. End of the inning. Team B coach asks me was the slide legal, I told him it was because if it was not his player would have been ejected. He understands and HE tells his players that was a good call, lets play.

I don't understand how a legal slide can ever be interference. You didn't say whose rules you were playing under, but even if it was one of those organizations that DOES define legal and illegal slide (ASA does not), a legal slide is always legal contact. A "take-out" slide is not illegal merely because it was a take-out slide. It has to violate the premise of a legal slide. You may not have considered the slide egreggious enough for the player to be ejected, but it seems to me you did have to consider it illegal to call interference. What was the basis of your interference call?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

B. What about when the fielder is not in a "standing position"?

I've always understood that to be defining the height of the sliding player's feet, not the position of the fielder at the time.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I've always understood that to be defining the height of the sliding player's feet, not the position of the fielder at the time.

Gotcha! ...........................

[BuggBob]

This was ASA. I used Rule 8.7.J.3, interference with the thrown ball to break up the double play. There was clearly interference on the play, just not malicious interference. The offensive coach immediate concern was about if his player would be ejected for malicious contact. The defense coach (who was a butt for the whole game) was only concern was about his catcher (who was briefly shaken up) and did not pursue a malicious contact call.