Infield fly not called

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

An intentional drop is called only if the fielder touches the fly ball and then drops it. If he just lets it fall to the ground untouched, he can field it for a double or triple play.

Agreed if the umpires determine that it truly wasn't an infield fly.

If the umpirese decide that it should have been an infield fly, then they'll allow the defense only one out. If the defense gets one out on the play (or no outs on the play), then the play stands. If the defense gets two or three outs on the play, then the umpires will declare the batter out and return all the other runners.

Based on what I saw of the play in question, I would have called the infield fly. (To be fair, I didn't see a previousl paly in which a "routine" pop up in the infied was not caught -- that might have changed my judgment on the play in question.)

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the defense gets two or three outs on the play, then the umpires will declare the batter out and return all the other runners.

Bob, are you saying that you'd "call IFF after the fact", if the defense gets more than one out?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Bob, are you saying that you'd "call IFF after the fact", if the defense gets more than one out?

If it was supposed to be an infield fly and I just forgot to call it, then, yes, I'd call it retroactively. If it wasn't supposed to be an infield fly, then the play stands.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If it was supposed to be an infield fly and I just forgot to call it, then, yes, I'd call it retroactively. If it wasn't supposed to be an infield fly, then the play stands.

okay, thank you. how do you talk your way out of a potentials SS when they come out and argue "Why didn't you call it right away?"

My reply would be: "Well, I wasn't sure, Now I'm sure, I'm calling it retroactively."

Just looking for other thoughts...I often work adult league 1-man.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

okay, thank you. how do you talk your way out of a potentials SS when they come out and argue "Why didn't you call it right away?"

"You're right. It was poor mechanics. But, it was the right call."

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"You're right. It was poor mechanics. But, it was the right call."

And I might add a comment that simply explained, "The rule is there to protect the offense. I cannot let the defense gain an advantage in this situation; therefore, I must call the Infield Fly."

I once had the offensive manager come out to argue this very play. When I politely explained to him that I was making the ruling to protect his runner(s), he commented, "Oh," and walked away.

[Fan10]

Originally Posted by UMP25

And I might add a comment that simply explained, "The rule is there to protect the offense. I cannot let the defense gain an advantage in this situation; therefore, I must call the Infield Fly."

I once had the offensive manager come out to argue this very play. When I politely explained to him that I was making the ruling to protect his runner(s), he commented, "Oh," and walked away.

Ironically, I saw the infield fly rule screw the offense in an NCAA game last year. Runners at 1st/2nd, 1 out. Batter hits a pop up to 1B. Should be an easy out. The ball hit off the side of the first baseman's glove and rolled all the way into foul territory between third and home. Both runners advanced, and the batter was called out on the infield fly. However, had there been no infield fly, the batter would have easily reached 1st, and it would have been bases loaded.

It was the right call, and nobody argued. But, as a fan who was sitting in the stands rooting for the offense, I was upset (not upset with the umps, just upset in general) that a rule designed to protect the offense actually screwed my team.

[PeteBooth]

Based on what I saw of the play in question, I would have called the infield fly. (To be fair, I didn't see a previousl paly in which a "routine" pop up in the infied was not caught -- that might have changed my judgment on the play in question.)

[/QUOTE]

Bob, Jimmy Rollins drop of a routine fly ball "set the stage" for the umpires NOT to invoke the IFR.

Rollins had all kinds of trouble trying to field what would have been a "can of corn" under normal conditions.

Therefore, on the play in question, the IFR was NOT invoked because the condtions had gotten so bad that a normal fly ball was now judged differently.

The interesting question would have been

Suppose the ball was dropped and the defense went on to complete the DP.

Since the umpire judged that the ball could not be caught with ordinary effort, no IFR to invoke and the call would most likely stand. However, the umpires put a run on the Board some 3 innings later in the O's Indians game a couple of years back so anything is possible.

Pete Booth

[midtnblu]

I think this was another error on the part of this crew. The IFF is designed to protect the offense in this situation, and by not calling it, they failed to protect the offensive team. You can't "not protect" them just because it's raining.

If they call IFF and the ball is dropped everyone is happy (1 out against the off. team). If they do not call IFF and the ball would have been dropped, somebody is getting pissed (most likely the off. team because the runners are hanging out near the bases expecting the ball to be caught and the def. team has a good shot at a DP (force at 3b and 2b).

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by midtnblu

I think this was another error on the part of this crew. The IFF is designed to protect the offense in this situation, and by not calling it, they failed to protect the offensive team. You can't "not protect" them just because it's raining.

But you can determine no infield fly because the wind made the play require more than ordinary effort. Good "no call."

[midtnblu]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

But you can determine no infield fly because the wind made the play require more than ordinary effort. Good "no call."

Let's change the play...

No IFF rule is called and no one is able to make the play but the defense recovers and is able to get a force at 3b and 2b.

Now you have a sh#tstorm.

IIRC, if uncaught, the ball would have landed in the infield dirt. Call the IFF rule and reference the "preventive umpiring" section of the rule book.

I'm just offering what I would have done.

It was just surprising to see a pop-up come down in this area of the infield and not see anyone call the IFF rule.

And you know it was unusual if the announcers picked up on it.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by midtnblu

No IFF rule is called and no one is able to make the play but the defense recovers and is able to get a force at 3b and 2b.

Now you have a sh#tstorm.

Not really. You might have the manager of the team at bat argue for an infield fly, but if no infielder was able to catch it with ordinary effort, that is what you tell him. If he still doesn't like it, there are other things you can tell him...

Originally Posted by midtnblu

IIRC, if uncaught, the ball would have landed in the infield dirt. Call the IFF rule and reference the "preventive umpiring" section of the rule book.

Where it might land does not matter. If you judge that an infielder could catch it with ordinary effort, then you should call it. What you shouldn't do is use "preventative umpiring" as a catch-all or a way to avoid a craphouse. Arguments can and do happen even when you apply the rules correctly.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by midtnblu

No IFF rule is called and no one is able to make the play but the defense recovers and is able to get a force at 3b and 2b.

This statement is ambiguous. If by "no one is able to make the play" you mean that no infielder can catch it with ordinary effort, then it's highly unlikely that the defense will get 2 outs here.

More likely, you meant that in fact the fielder did not catch the ball, though he could have. This is still an IFF.

Think of it this way: the IFF rule is intended to prevent the defense from making a DP on a pop-up in the infield. So if you've got a pop-up, and the defense gets 2 outs from it, you probably should have called an IFF.

If that happens, then fix it: send the runners back and declare the batter out.

[DG]

Originally Posted by midtnblu

I think this was another error on the part of this crew. The IFF is designed to protect the offense in this situation, and by not calling it, they failed to protect the offensive team. You can't "not protect" them just because it's raining.

Wind made the play not one that could be made with ordinary effort, not rain. If he was camped under a fly ball in the rain, then IFF would be the correct call.