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Old Tue Oct 28, 2008, 09:30pm
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Infield fly not called

Believe it was the 5th inning in game 5 WS. Wicked fly ball to right side of infield because of rain and wind. Caught with much effort by infielder. Announcers mention "no infield fly signaled" and then pontificate on "If he intentionally dropped it they could have gotten a DP". Did I hear right?
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Old Tue Oct 28, 2008, 09:52pm
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Yep. You heard right. But what would you expect from these announcers. To their credit, they did come on after the commercial and read the rule, waiting until the end to say “with ordinary effort". Great non-call.

I really liked the sounds of the game when U1 came over and told the HP that the foul line was wiped out in front of 1st base on that last slide and the GK should fix it. He said, and I paraphrase, "that's your call up to first so we should get it fixed so you won't have any problem."
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Old Tue Oct 28, 2008, 09:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umpjim View Post
Believe it was the 5th inning in game 5 WS. Wicked fly ball to right side of infield because of rain and wind. Caught with much effort by infielder. Announcers mention "no infield fly signaled" and then pontificate on "If he intentionally dropped it they could have gotten a DP". Did I hear right?
Which would have been impossible since the batter was standing on first base when the ball was missed.
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Old Tue Oct 28, 2008, 10:35pm
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Which was impossible since if no infield fly was called an intentionally dropped fly ball or line drive is a dead ball and batter is out and runners return.
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Old Tue Oct 28, 2008, 11:39pm
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Wind is a factor in whether to call IFF, sun is not. I guess under the conditions, wind and downpour combined are also a factor...

I remember a game several years ago I was working BU on a windy day, wind coming in from RF, and went out on fly ball to right because I thought it might be a shoe stringer. F4 went out too and wind blew the ball back into infield to about where F4 was before he went out. No IFF was called that day on any plays.
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Old Wed Oct 29, 2008, 12:20am
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sun could absolutely be a factor. take the same situation as in game 5, but make it a day game with a bright sun. ball goes up above F4's position and should be a "routine" catch, but he looks up and right into the sun, causing him to move his head away and put his arms up over his head for protection. reading this reaction of the fielder, you no longer have a catch that is about to be made with ordinary effort, you have a fielder that doesn't know where the ball is. you're telling me you're going to call infield fly on that?
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Old Wed Oct 29, 2008, 12:29am
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Tim Tschida, the first base umpire, covered the IFF situation in the post suspended game interview quite nicely.
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Old Wed Oct 29, 2008, 12:32am
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bobby,

I suspect that J/R isn't your favorite rules interpretation source, but they say that wind is a factor in not calling IFF, but sun and natural darkness are not.

In the particular example you site, I think most umpires would have already called the IFF once the ball reached its apex, and before (as I read your description) the fielder began to have trouble.

Last edited by Dave Reed; Wed Oct 29, 2008 at 12:33am. Reason: To make clear to whom this is addressed
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Old Wed Oct 29, 2008, 12:58am
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Never read it, and 100% disagree. So a guy hits a popup in the infield and the second baseman sees it on the way up but loses it because it's getting dark out, and you're going to call infield fly? Ridiculous.
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Last edited by bobbybanaduck; Wed Oct 29, 2008 at 01:06am. Reason: Because I'm using voice recognition software it doesn't work very well :-)
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Old Wed Oct 29, 2008, 01:16am
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I shouldn't have paraphrased it. They say:
"When determining ordinary effort wind is a factor, sun in a fielder's eyes and natural darkness (e.g., fly ball is temporarily lost above the lights) are not factors."
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Old Wed Oct 29, 2008, 01:38am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umpjim View Post
Believe it was the 5th inning in game 5 WS. Wicked fly ball to right side of infield because of rain and wind. Caught with much effort by infielder. Announcers mention "no infield fly signaled" and then pontificate on "If he intentionally dropped it they could have gotten a DP". Did I hear right?
I think he meant let it drop untouched. I hope.
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Old Wed Oct 29, 2008, 06:50am
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Infield fly or foul ball?

I saw this happen in a game I was watching a few years ago:

R1 & R2 less than 2 out. Batter hits a high pop fly behind home plate. Catcher overruns it and the ball falls untouched in foul territory behind the plate then trickles into fair territory. The catcher should have easily caught it, and it was a fair ball - so IFF, right? No call was made. The pitcher piched up the "foul ball" and play continued. What would you do in this situation?
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Old Wed Oct 29, 2008, 07:17am
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Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck View Post
Never read it, and 100% disagree. So a guy hits a popup in the infield and the second baseman sees it on the way up but loses it because it's getting dark out, and you're going to call infield fly? Ridiculous.
The only difference between us is that I have read it (J/R), and I too disagree with most of it!

And to the question of others, "Ordinary Effort" is the umpire's judgment - no one else's.
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Old Wed Oct 29, 2008, 07:40am
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Originally Posted by umpjim View Post
Which was impossible since if no infield fly was called an intentionally dropped fly ball or line drive is a dead ball and batter is out and runners return.
An intentional drop is called only if the fielder touches the fly ball and then drops it. If he just lets it fall to the ground untouched, he can field it for a double or triple play.
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Old Wed Oct 29, 2008, 08:33am
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
An intentional drop is called only if the fielder touches the fly ball and then drops it. If he just lets it fall to the ground untouched, he can field it for a double or triple play.
Agreed if the umpires determine that it truly wasn't an infield fly.

If the umpirese decide that it should have been an infield fly, then they'll allow the defense only one out. If the defense gets one out on the play (or no outs on the play), then the play stands. If the defense gets two or three outs on the play, then the umpires will declare the batter out and return all the other runners.

Based on what I saw of the play in question, I would have called the infield fly. (To be fair, I didn't see a previousl paly in which a "routine" pop up in the infied was not caught -- that might have changed my judgment on the play in question.)
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