Infield fly not called

[umpjim]

Believe it was the 5th inning in game 5 WS. Wicked fly ball to right side of infield because of rain and wind. Caught with much effort by infielder. Announcers mention "no infield fly signaled" and then pontificate on "If he intentionally dropped it they could have gotten a DP". Did I hear right?

[Forest Ump]

Yep. You heard right. But what would you expect from these announcers. To their credit, they did come on after the commercial and read the rule, waiting until the end to say “with ordinary effort". Great non-call.

I really liked the sounds of the game when U1 came over and told the HP that the foul line was wiped out in front of 1st base on that last slide and the GK should fix it. He said, and I paraphrase, "that's your call up to first so we should get it fixed so you won't have any problem."

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Believe it was the 5th inning in game 5 WS. Wicked fly ball to right side of infield because of rain and wind. Caught with much effort by infielder. Announcers mention "no infield fly signaled" and then pontificate on "If he intentionally dropped it they could have gotten a DP". Did I hear right?

Which would have been impossible since the batter was standing on first base when the ball was missed.

[umpjim]

Which was impossible since if no infield fly was called an intentionally dropped fly ball or line drive is a dead ball and batter is out and runners return.

[DG]

Wind is a factor in whether to call IFF, sun is not. I guess under the conditions, wind and downpour combined are also a factor...

I remember a game several years ago I was working BU on a windy day, wind coming in from RF, and went out on fly ball to right because I thought it might be a shoe stringer. F4 went out too and wind blew the ball back into infield to about where F4 was before he went out. No IFF was called that day on any plays.

[bobbybanaduck]

sun could absolutely be a factor. take the same situation as in game 5, but make it a day game with a bright sun. ball goes up above F4's position and should be a "routine" catch, but he looks up and right into the sun, causing him to move his head away and put his arms up over his head for protection. reading this reaction of the fielder, you no longer have a catch that is about to be made with ordinary effort, you have a fielder that doesn't know where the ball is. you're telling me you're going to call infield fly on that?

[tballump]

Tim Tschida, the first base umpire, covered the IFF situation in the post suspended game interview quite nicely.

[Dave Reed]

bobby,

I suspect that J/R isn't your favorite rules interpretation source, but they say that wind is a factor in not calling IFF, but sun and natural darkness are not.

In the particular example you site, I think most umpires would have already called the IFF once the ball reached its apex, and before (as I read your description) the fielder began to have trouble.

[DG]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

sun could absolutely be a factor. take the same situation as in game 5, but make it a day game with a bright sun. ball goes up above F4's position and should be a "routine" catch, but he looks up and right into the sun, causing him to move his head away and put his arms up over his head for protection. reading this reaction of the fielder, you no longer have a catch that is about to be made with ordinary effort, you have a fielder that doesn't know where the ball is. you're telling me you're going to call infield fly on that?

I played 2B when I played and never dropped an easily catchable ball due to the sun. I also can't remember the last time I saw this happen in a major league game. The sun is not a factor, or should not be a factor in judging IFF on ordinary effort.

[D-Man]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

sun could absolutely be a factor. take the same situation as in game 5, but make it a day game with a bright sun. ball goes up above F4's position and should be a "routine" catch, but he looks up and right into the sun, causing him to move his head away and put his arms up over his head for protection. reading this reaction of the fielder, you no longer have a catch that is about to be made with ordinary effort, you have a fielder that doesn't know where the ball is. you're telling me you're going to call infield fly on that?

The fielder can protect his eyes from the sun. How are you going to guage the integrity of a player who learns he can just fake the sun in his eyes to get an easy double play?

The characteristics of the batted ball are what I consider when calling an infield fly (along with conforming to the rule, of course). The wind is a physical factor acting on the batted ball, making it move laterally in an unpredictable fashion. A fielder can't be expected to catch a wind deviated fly ball with ordinary effort. His integrity does not matter because we can see the affect the wind is having on the batted ball.

As an aside, the rule is all about protecting the offense.

D

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Which was impossible since if no infield fly was called an intentionally dropped fly ball or line drive is a dead ball and batter is out and runners return.

An intentional drop is called only if the fielder touches the fly ball and then drops it. If he just lets it fall to the ground untouched, he can field it for a double or triple play.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

An intentional drop is called only if the fielder touches the fly ball and then drops it. If he just lets it fall to the ground untouched, he can field it for a double or triple play.

Agreed if the umpires determine that it truly wasn't an infield fly.

If the umpirese decide that it should have been an infield fly, then they'll allow the defense only one out. If the defense gets one out on the play (or no outs on the play), then the play stands. If the defense gets two or three outs on the play, then the umpires will declare the batter out and return all the other runners.

Based on what I saw of the play in question, I would have called the infield fly. (To be fair, I didn't see a previousl paly in which a "routine" pop up in the infied was not caught -- that might have changed my judgment on the play in question.)

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the defense gets two or three outs on the play, then the umpires will declare the batter out and return all the other runners.

Bob, are you saying that you'd "call IFF after the fact", if the defense gets more than one out?

[PeteBooth]

Based on what I saw of the play in question, I would have called the infield fly. (To be fair, I didn't see a previousl paly in which a "routine" pop up in the infied was not caught -- that might have changed my judgment on the play in question.)

[/QUOTE]

Bob, Jimmy Rollins drop of a routine fly ball "set the stage" for the umpires NOT to invoke the IFR.

Rollins had all kinds of trouble trying to field what would have been a "can of corn" under normal conditions.

Therefore, on the play in question, the IFR was NOT invoked because the condtions had gotten so bad that a normal fly ball was now judged differently.

The interesting question would have been

Suppose the ball was dropped and the defense went on to complete the DP.

Since the umpire judged that the ball could not be caught with ordinary effort, no IFR to invoke and the call would most likely stand. However, the umpires put a run on the Board some 3 innings later in the O's Indians game a couple of years back so anything is possible.

Pete Booth

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Believe it was the 5th inning in game 5 WS. Wicked fly ball to right side of infield because of rain and wind. Caught with much effort by infielder. Announcers mention "no infield fly signaled" and then pontificate on "If he intentionally dropped it they could have gotten a DP". Did I hear right?

I think he meant let it drop untouched. I hope.