Infield fly not called

[umpjim]

Which was impossible since if no infield fly was called an intentionally dropped fly ball or line drive is a dead ball and batter is out and runners return.

[DG]

Wind is a factor in whether to call IFF, sun is not. I guess under the conditions, wind and downpour combined are also a factor...

I remember a game several years ago I was working BU on a windy day, wind coming in from RF, and went out on fly ball to right because I thought it might be a shoe stringer. F4 went out too and wind blew the ball back into infield to about where F4 was before he went out. No IFF was called that day on any plays.

[bobbybanaduck]

sun could absolutely be a factor. take the same situation as in game 5, but make it a day game with a bright sun. ball goes up above F4's position and should be a "routine" catch, but he looks up and right into the sun, causing him to move his head away and put his arms up over his head for protection. reading this reaction of the fielder, you no longer have a catch that is about to be made with ordinary effort, you have a fielder that doesn't know where the ball is. you're telling me you're going to call infield fly on that?

[tballump]

Tim Tschida, the first base umpire, covered the IFF situation in the post suspended game interview quite nicely.

[Dave Reed]

bobby,

I suspect that J/R isn't your favorite rules interpretation source, but they say that wind is a factor in not calling IFF, but sun and natural darkness are not.

In the particular example you site, I think most umpires would have already called the IFF once the ball reached its apex, and before (as I read your description) the fielder began to have trouble.

[bobbybanaduck]

Never read it, and 100% disagree. So a guy hits a popup in the infield and the second baseman sees it on the way up but loses it because it's getting dark out, and you're going to call infield fly? Ridiculous.

[Dave Reed]

I shouldn't have paraphrased it. They say:
"When determining ordinary effort wind is a factor, sun in a fielder's eyes and natural darkness (e.g., fly ball is temporarily lost above the lights) are not factors."

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

Never read it, and 100% disagree. So a guy hits a popup in the infield and the second baseman sees it on the way up but loses it because it's getting dark out, and you're going to call infield fly? Ridiculous.

The only difference between us is that I have read it (J/R), and I too disagree with most of it!

And to the question of others, "Ordinary Effort" is the umpire's judgment - no one else's.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

The only difference between us is that I have read it (J/R), and I too disagree with most of it!

And to the question of others, "Ordinary Effort" is the umpire's judgment - no one else's.

And I'm a lot taller.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

Never read it, and 100% disagree. So a guy hits a popup in the infield and the second baseman sees it on the way up but loses it because it's getting dark out, and you're going to call infield fly?

Absolutely! Why? Because, simply put, it's a ball that can be caught with ordinary effort. Period. Considering the decision will be made by me once the ball has reached its peak of begun its descent, the fielder's inability to cope with the sun is irrelevant and not considered "unordinary" effort.

[DG]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

sun could absolutely be a factor. take the same situation as in game 5, but make it a day game with a bright sun. ball goes up above F4's position and should be a "routine" catch, but he looks up and right into the sun, causing him to move his head away and put his arms up over his head for protection. reading this reaction of the fielder, you no longer have a catch that is about to be made with ordinary effort, you have a fielder that doesn't know where the ball is. you're telling me you're going to call infield fly on that?

I played 2B when I played and never dropped an easily catchable ball due to the sun. I also can't remember the last time I saw this happen in a major league game. The sun is not a factor, or should not be a factor in judging IFF on ordinary effort.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by DG

I played 2B when I played and never dropped an easily catchable ball due to the sun. I also can't remember the last time I saw this happen in a major league game. The sun is not a factor, or should not be a factor in judging IFF on ordinary effort.

I agree, and the infield fly is traditionally called at the apex of the ball's upward flight anyway, so the fielder's late reaction to the sun would be after the IFF was called.

[johnnyg08]

that makes perfect sense...thanks Seth

[D-Man]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

sun could absolutely be a factor. take the same situation as in game 5, but make it a day game with a bright sun. ball goes up above F4's position and should be a "routine" catch, but he looks up and right into the sun, causing him to move his head away and put his arms up over his head for protection. reading this reaction of the fielder, you no longer have a catch that is about to be made with ordinary effort, you have a fielder that doesn't know where the ball is. you're telling me you're going to call infield fly on that?

The fielder can protect his eyes from the sun. How are you going to guage the integrity of a player who learns he can just fake the sun in his eyes to get an easy double play?

The characteristics of the batted ball are what I consider when calling an infield fly (along with conforming to the rule, of course). The wind is a physical factor acting on the batted ball, making it move laterally in an unpredictable fashion. A fielder can't be expected to catch a wind deviated fly ball with ordinary effort. His integrity does not matter because we can see the affect the wind is having on the batted ball.

As an aside, the rule is all about protecting the offense.

D

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Which was impossible since if no infield fly was called an intentionally dropped fly ball or line drive is a dead ball and batter is out and runners return.

An intentional drop is called only if the fielder touches the fly ball and then drops it. If he just lets it fall to the ground untouched, he can field it for a double or triple play.