Infield fly not called

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

The only difference between us is that I have read it (J/R), and I too disagree with most of it!

And to the question of others, "Ordinary Effort" is the umpire's judgment - no one else's.

And I'm a lot taller.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the defense gets two or three outs on the play, then the umpires will declare the batter out and return all the other runners.

Bob, are you saying that you'd "call IFF after the fact", if the defense gets more than one out?

[PeteBooth]

Based on what I saw of the play in question, I would have called the infield fly. (To be fair, I didn't see a previousl paly in which a "routine" pop up in the infied was not caught -- that might have changed my judgment on the play in question.)

[/QUOTE]

Bob, Jimmy Rollins drop of a routine fly ball "set the stage" for the umpires NOT to invoke the IFR.

Rollins had all kinds of trouble trying to field what would have been a "can of corn" under normal conditions.

Therefore, on the play in question, the IFR was NOT invoked because the condtions had gotten so bad that a normal fly ball was now judged differently.

The interesting question would have been

Suppose the ball was dropped and the defense went on to complete the DP.

Since the umpire judged that the ball could not be caught with ordinary effort, no IFR to invoke and the call would most likely stand. However, the umpires put a run on the Board some 3 innings later in the O's Indians game a couple of years back so anything is possible.

Pete Booth

[midtnblu]

I think this was another error on the part of this crew. The IFF is designed to protect the offense in this situation, and by not calling it, they failed to protect the offensive team. You can't "not protect" them just because it's raining.

If they call IFF and the ball is dropped everyone is happy (1 out against the off. team). If they do not call IFF and the ball would have been dropped, somebody is getting pissed (most likely the off. team because the runners are hanging out near the bases expecting the ball to be caught and the def. team has a good shot at a DP (force at 3b and 2b).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Bob, are you saying that you'd "call IFF after the fact", if the defense gets more than one out?

If it was supposed to be an infield fly and I just forgot to call it, then, yes, I'd call it retroactively. If it wasn't supposed to be an infield fly, then the play stands.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by midtnblu

I think this was another error on the part of this crew. The IFF is designed to protect the offense in this situation, and by not calling it, they failed to protect the offensive team. You can't "not protect" them just because it's raining.

But you can determine no infield fly because the wind made the play require more than ordinary effort. Good "no call."

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I think he meant let it drop untouched. I hope.

I hope so too, but that would be expecting a lot out of the announcers.

[midtnblu]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

But you can determine no infield fly because the wind made the play require more than ordinary effort. Good "no call."

Let's change the play...

No IFF rule is called and no one is able to make the play but the defense recovers and is able to get a force at 3b and 2b.

Now you have a sh#tstorm.

IIRC, if uncaught, the ball would have landed in the infield dirt. Call the IFF rule and reference the "preventive umpiring" section of the rule book.

I'm just offering what I would have done.

It was just surprising to see a pop-up come down in this area of the infield and not see anyone call the IFF rule.

And you know it was unusual if the announcers picked up on it.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by midtnblu

No IFF rule is called and no one is able to make the play but the defense recovers and is able to get a force at 3b and 2b.

Now you have a sh#tstorm.

Not really. You might have the manager of the team at bat argue for an infield fly, but if no infielder was able to catch it with ordinary effort, that is what you tell him. If he still doesn't like it, there are other things you can tell him...

Originally Posted by midtnblu

IIRC, if uncaught, the ball would have landed in the infield dirt. Call the IFF rule and reference the "preventive umpiring" section of the rule book.

Where it might land does not matter. If you judge that an infielder could catch it with ordinary effort, then you should call it. What you shouldn't do is use "preventative umpiring" as a catch-all or a way to avoid a craphouse. Arguments can and do happen even when you apply the rules correctly.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

And I'm a lot taller.

So I could call you "Big Boy"?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by midtnblu

No IFF rule is called and no one is able to make the play but the defense recovers and is able to get a force at 3b and 2b.

This statement is ambiguous. If by "no one is able to make the play" you mean that no infielder can catch it with ordinary effort, then it's highly unlikely that the defense will get 2 outs here.

More likely, you meant that in fact the fielder did not catch the ball, though he could have. This is still an IFF.

Think of it this way: the IFF rule is intended to prevent the defense from making a DP on a pop-up in the infield. So if you've got a pop-up, and the defense gets 2 outs from it, you probably should have called an IFF.

If that happens, then fix it: send the runners back and declare the batter out.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If it was supposed to be an infield fly and I just forgot to call it, then, yes, I'd call it retroactively. If it wasn't supposed to be an infield fly, then the play stands.

okay, thank you. how do you talk your way out of a potentials SS when they come out and argue "Why didn't you call it right away?"

My reply would be: "Well, I wasn't sure, Now I'm sure, I'm calling it retroactively."

Just looking for other thoughts...I often work adult league 1-man.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

okay, thank you. how do you talk your way out of a potentials SS when they come out and argue "Why didn't you call it right away?"

"You're right. It was poor mechanics. But, it was the right call."

[griff901c]

Originally Posted by TxUmp

I saw this happen in a game I was watching a few years ago:

R1 & R2 less than 2 out. Batter hits a high pop fly behind home plate. Catcher overruns it and the ball falls untouched in foul territory behind the plate then trickles into fair territory. The catcher should have easily caught it, and it was a fair ball - so IFF, right? No call was made. The pitcher piched up the "foul ball" and play continued. What would you do in this situation?

It's IFF.." if fair"..meaning in fair territory..right? Landing foul ( no IFF) and rolling fair...no IFF

griff

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by griff901c

It's IFF.." if fair"..meaning in fair territory..right? Landing foul ( no IFF) and rolling fair...no IFF

griff

the ball is nothing until it lands...if it lands in foul and rolls fair, it's no longer in flight and can't be a fly ball. play on, fair ball.