Infield Fly called, ball drops, fielders run

[clevbrown]

I think I know the answer to this question, but I cannot find anything in the ASA rule book that addresses the situation.

R1 at 3rd, R2 at 2nd, and R3 at 1st (bases loaded) with no outs. Fly ball is hit just in front of 2nd base. Plate umpire calls "Infield Fly, batter is out". Ball hits the fielder's glove then hits the ground and is not caught. All runners are off the base on the release of the pitch and none of the base runners return to the base to tag up, as they attempt to advance to the next base. F6 throws the ball to home and tags R1 out before she scores, then F2 throws to F3 who tags 1st base. The umpire has the batter out, R1 out after being tagged at home, but says R3 is not out because she does not have to tag up on a dropped infield fly.

My understanding of the rule is a base runner must tag up after the point where the fielder should have made 1st contact with the ball if they had caught it. I didn't think it mattered if the girl caught it or not, the infield fly assumes the fielder caught the ball. So, I thought the call should have been a triple play with Batter out, R1 out at home, and R3 out for not tagging up at 1st.

The only problem is I cannot find this rule in the rule book. Can anyone clarify what should be called and point me to the rule which defines this? AT what time must the base runner tag up on a dropped infield fly?

Thanks,
Clevbrown

[ukumpire]

Although not ASA but ISF I am sure the same rule applies-
Infield Fly is a Live Ball - Runners can leave on the touch of the ball, so if ball is touch, or not touched or caught, then no need to tag up.

[Bluefoot]

The IFF rule does not 'assume' that the fly is caught. The batter is out, for the purpose of removing the force on the other runners on base, which would put the offense at a disadvantage. (where the def. could turn an easy double or triple play).
You won't find that IFF means the the def. caught the ball, because that's not correct.
If an IFF is caught, then any runners must tag up before advancing, just the same as any caught fly ball. But if an IFF is not caught, then runners can advance at their own risk, but aren't forced to do so, since the batter is out on the IFF and the force is removed.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Bluefoot

The IFF rule does not 'assume' that the fly is caught. The batter is out, for the purpose of removing the force on the other runners on base, which would put the offense at a disadvantage. (where the def. could turn an easy double or triple play).
You won't find that IFF means the the def. caught the ball, because that's not correct.
If an IFF is caught, then any runners must tag up before advancing, just the same as any caught fly ball. But if an IFF is not caught, then runners can advance at their own risk, but aren't forced to do so, since the batter is out on the IFF and the force is removed.

IOW, an IF is the same as any other batted fly ball, except the batter is automatically out (unless foul) to eliminate the forces.
Tagging up is a separate issue, based on first touch if caught or if not caught, just like any other batted fly ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by clevbrown

I think I know the answer to this question, but I cannot find anything in the ASA rule book that addresses the situation.

R1 at 3rd, R2 at 2nd, and R3 at 1st (bases loaded) with no outs. Fly ball is hit just in front of 2nd base. Plate umpire calls "Infield Fly, batter is out". Ball hits the fielder's glove then hits the ground and is not caught. All runners are off the base on the release of the pitch and none of the base runners return to the base to tag up, as they attempt to advance to the next base. F6 throws the ball to home and tags R1 out before she scores, then F2 throws to F3 who tags 1st base. The umpire has the batter out, R1 out after being tagged at home, but says R3 is not out because she does not have to tag up on a dropped infield fly.

My understanding of the rule is a base runner must tag up after the point where the fielder should have made 1st contact with the ball if they had caught it. I didn't think it mattered if the girl caught it or not, the infield fly assumes the fielder caught the ball. So, I thought the call should have been a triple play with Batter out, R1 out at home, and R3 out for not tagging up at 1st.

The only problem is I cannot find this rule in the rule book. Can anyone clarify what should be called and point me to the rule which defines this? AT what time must the base runner tag up on a dropped infield fly?

Thanks,
Clevbrown

Say what? Why would the "fielders run"? Why would a runner need to tag up on an uncaught fly ball?

[clevbrown]

Thanks for the replies. No wonder I could not find this addressed in the rule book. I thought I read this ruling or seen it on this web site, but I stand corrected. Thanks for straightening me out and I will be appoligizing to the umpire I discussed this with.

Mike, yes I screwed up and typed "Fielder" instead of "runner". 2 mistakes int he same day, darn I must be a coach today

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by ukumpire

Although not ASA but ISF I am sure the same rule applies-
Infield Fly is a Live Ball - Runners can leave on the touch of the ball, so if ball is touch, or not touched or caught, then no need to tag up.

That's incorrect, even in your ruleset. IFF does not change the runners' responsibilities at all.

Runners must tag on a CAUGHT fly ball (IFF or no IFF - doesn't matter).

Runners need not tag at all on an UNCAUGHT fly ball (IFF or no IFF - doesn't matter).

In this sitch, there's no need for a runner to tag - the ball was not caught. (Again ... if I wasn't clear - IFF doesn't matter).

IFF affects the BATTER, and removes any forces. That's all. Don't make it harder than it is.

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Was working a 7th/8th grade (in NYS, called, confusingly, Modified) game with a 2nd year ump who is the son of an ump -me PU, him BU; IFF with bases loaded, I call it, and the SS misses the catch. She throws to 3B, and my partner calls the R from 2nd out on the force...I say nothing, none of the coaches say anything..the inning ends, and I gently pull him aside to softly explain what he did...did I handle this properly, or should I have corrected that immediately? We DID go and tell the coaches of the team we possibly screwed about it later, so they could teach their kids the real rule...I was so hesitant to show up a new guy on the field...not to mention take a very rare out away...

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

Was working a 7th/8th grade (in NYS, called, confusingly, Modified) game with a 2nd year ump who is the son of an ump -me PU, him BU; IFF with bases loaded, I call it, and the SS misses the catch. She throws to 3B, and my partner calls the R from 2nd out on the force...I say nothing, none of the coaches say anything..the inning ends, and I gently pull him aside to softly explain what he did...did I handle this properly, or should I have corrected that immediately? We DID go and tell the coaches of the team we possibly screwed about it later, so they could teach their kids the real rule...I was so hesitant to show up a new guy on the field...not to mention take a very rare out away...

Don't fix judgement calls... but ALWAYS fix rule misapplications.

[CecilOne]

I think infield is one word.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Don't fix judgement calls... but ALWAYS fix rule misapplications.

Especially with a new ump, who will have other partners.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I think infield is one word.

Cross-thread humor! LOL!