Does the run score?

[mick]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

mick,

The following is from the MLBUM (my emphasis):



So, in the OP, since the R3 had not yet touched home at the time the pitcher initiated his delivery, he "occupies" 3B at the beginning of this "play" (what J/R defines as the "continuous action" of the play).

Since the BR did not reach 1B base safely on the play, and was the 3rd out of the inning, no run can score on the play - even if a runner touches home before he is out.

Had the runner touched home prior to the pitcher initiating his delivery, then his run would score.

JM

JM,
Before I go on, thanks for the time you are spending on this.

Thanks for the reference from MLBUM. For me, it clearly defines Time of Pitch. But I do not think the OP is concerned with rules relating to retouches and dropped third strikes. The OP asks did the run count? Is there a section in MLBUM that answers the question of what determines a run? Below is what I found. And I still do not understand why the run by the runner stealing home, before the batter is called out on strikes, does not count.

I apologize for going my old 1995 J/R again, but it is the best source that I have.
[Please note, I do willingly concede to newer information that may be available.]

J/R - Chapter 10 Determining a run.

• A run can occur only if a runner¹ touches (or passes) each advance base².
• However, there cannot be a run if a runner has touched (or passed) home base, but there is related action wherein
  • he is out.
• • he must return to another base
  • a third out occurs before the runner touches (or passes) home; this is called a time play

i. (example of force out removed and touching home before)
ii. (example of force out removed and touching home after)
iii. (example of R2 missing third with or without appeal)

• • the third out is:

i. the batter- runner before touching (or passing) first base, or the batter-runner on an appeal for missing first, or when his batted ball is caught.
ii. another runner who is forced
iii. a leading runner on appeal. No runners following such runner can score.

• Appeal Outs, Fourth Outs, and Determining a Run.

A third out (whether a typical third out or a superceding fourth out) occurs when the action creating the third out occurs; the timing of such third out is never retroactive. Whether the out is an appeal or a regular tag, the out actually occurs at the time the tag originates, and should be seen as such in relationship to another runner’s touch of home in trying to score on a time play.

A determination of whether an out is a force out or not can be a factor in deciding if a run counts.

The third out of an inning does not prevent the defense from getting a fourth out.

A runner who touches (or passes) home with the apparent winning run does not terminate the game; a subsequent out is possible.

¹ assume runner to be not out

² a run legally scored cannot be nullified by a subsequent action of the runner (i.e., runner makes unnecessary effort to return to third base in a mistaken belief that he had failed to retouch.